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RT @lxoliva @jargon @colindean !fsf !gnu freedom is not freedom of choice. choosing a master means giving up freedom
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@schestowitz I see freedom as the power to choose a master or choose none, knowing consequences of both. I think @jargon agrees. !fsf !gnu
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@schestowitz hey, good to see you here!
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@schestowitz For claiming to be a freedom activist, how can you ignore one of the cornerstones of freedom‽
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@mtrausch you can't unilaterally obtain source code or revoke copyrights either, so your only choice is to stop using the program
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@mtrausch so why not save a step anyway?
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@lxoliva If you use Windows, you may later use a free GNU system (be it Hurd, Linux, whatever), and vice versa; i.e., mutable decision.
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@lxoliva Some people do not know better; others make informed choices to use non-free software. Who are you to tell them they are wrong?
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@mtrausch and then, it's a choice only if you don't mind losing the data it encoded in secret file formats
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@lxoliva That is a very antiqated statement. Most free sw is able to import nearly all data from such systems; I do it for ppl all the time.
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@mtrausch I'm saying they're giving up freedom and harming their neighbors. you think for yourself whether that's right or wrong
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@mtrausch and then, if you decide that's wrong, don't fight me, fight that who does the wrong
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@mtrausch now, if you decide it's right to let other control you, even into harming your neighbor, well, what can I say?
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@mtrausch I'm sure you can do it for formats that people worked hard to figure out. these are no longer secret, but plenty remain
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@lxoliva I often write programs to convert files by hand and write them out to files that there is software for. Got something else?
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@lxoliva Please explain how my next-door neighbor running Windows introduces harm unto me. I compute quite happily, myself.
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@lxoliva Your argument only leads to the conclusion of the imposition of free software on others. Forcing anyone to do *anything* is wrong.
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@lxoliva If you have a few examples, lemmie know.
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@lxoliva Before we even continue down this road, answer me this, please: how many years of exp do you have in computing? Programming?
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@mtrausch re: harm onto you by neighbor's use of Windows, read http://fsfla.org/blogs/lxo/draft/flisol-libre-2008
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@mtrausch thanks for releasing the format conversion programs you write as Free Software, I guess ;-)
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@mtrausch I started programming computers for fun in 1980, and professionally in 1983
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@lxoliva of course! If I choose a master, the employ the master to choose for me, thus surrendering my independent choice. (@jargon)
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@lxoliva I still have freedom to part ways w/ my master, though. If I entangle myself too much, it's my fault for choosing a harsh master
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@mtrausch you can't unilaterally revoke a contract (e.g. restrictive EULA), so, no, it's not mutable: the restrictions apply and remain
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@colindean how do you tell in advance what you'd have to leave behind to part ways with that possibly-harsh master?
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@lxoliva You don't. You can't know everything. You can only do you research and hope that your gamble is right. It's a trust and warranty.
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@lxoliva You can cease to agree to the terms of a EULA at any point in time, by law, at which point you lose license to use the software.
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@mtrausch and what about those pesky contractual obligations and restrictions that survive the termination of the contract?
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@lxoliva They have no effect if you do not use the software.
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@mtrausch try publishing .NET performance numbers prohibited by the EULA after collecting them, then ceasing to agree with it, for one
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@lxoliva I am pretty sure that part of the EULA is not enforceable in the U.S.; I would ask an attorney on that.
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@lxoliva Companies put unenforceable clauses in many license agreements.
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@schestowitz !fsf !gnu some people pay for sex, some like to be bonded and hurt, some pay to be bounded and hurt
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@schestowitz !gnu !fsf there is no right or wrong there. If someone want to chose master and waive freedom, he should be free to do so
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@schestowitz !gnu !fsf Task of fsf comunity is to inform people that they can be free and provide choice, not force people into freedom
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@slartibartfast Please tell me, where is the "force"? Have !FSF members blockaded your local Apple store? Confiscated your Windows PC?
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@freemjd at war again?
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@phrkonaleash Sorry, thought you already had unsubscribed from !fsf & !gnu. Now the threat's going to keep me awake at night all over again.
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@phrkonaleash It's my fault, I didn't realise !fsf and !gnu were for people who disagreed with them. Then I blundered in with my bickering…
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@pault4 It's a sickness. My one serious #resolution was to stop feeding the trolls in 2010. Two and a half weeks! Pathetic!
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@phrkonaleash look, this isn't because of it
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@phrkonaleash debating,"bickering-" if geeks can't be pedantic around you, most of the net is unsuitable not just !fsf and !gnu- yt's worse.
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@slartibartfast that *might* be true if the master wouldn't abuse the received power to do harm unto others
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@freemjd I dind't mean you in particular, just the last 12 hours of it. My apologies
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@openuniverse It's no debating. It's only debating if people actually listen and think about what others say. I don't see that.
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@phrkonaleash at least we agree on that in principle. your statement would suggest it applies here, i agree it does too often, at least.
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