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RT @caostheory: An interview with Marten Mickos on how open source businesses can break through the $10-15m plateau. http://bit.ly/aOYGn6
Thursday, 11-Feb-10 08:14:35 UTC from ubertwitter-
@carlopiana, why would we *want* so-called "Open Source" companies to "break through" beyond $15m in revenue. Small companies are better.
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@bkuhn $10-15m is the magic threshold for capital investment from VC. It's one of the BM for startups, worth exploring.
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@carlopiana, VC is a *bad* thing,not a *good* thing for software. We'd do much better to not have VC-based companies; small business' better
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@bkuhn more sustainable in the long run, at any rate, this is something that I've harpped on for a long time. +1
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@bkuhn @carlopiana +1 for bkuhn VC is the past, not the future of economy
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@bkuhn @carlopiana aka cooperation of many is far more better than domination by few (small vs big)
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@joecool, Agreed. Many small (5-10 employee) companies are more likely to make a healthy FaiF codebase than a one (or a few) big companies.
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@bkuhn VC is a tool. Loads of money, better finance s/thing good than s. bad. Depends on what you give away in exchange
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@carlopiana, loads of money in one single place is not a tool that's useful in creating more software freedom. FLOSS doesn't need VC. Period
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@bkuhn: I'd be interested to hear your examples of where VC is bad for software. I think it depends on the VC and the terms of the agreement
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@snapl, I'd be interested in *any* example where large amounts of VC has done *good* for FLOSS. I've never been shown one.
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@bkuhn fact is that money IS in their pocket, awaiting to be wasted on s/thing. Agree World w'd be better w/o, but that's it #pragmatism
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@carlopiana,let'em waste it elsewhere. Just b/c something's available doesn't mean "do it" Should I eat whole cake just b/c it's in kitchen?
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@bkuhn: A bit contrived, but Blender's VC prior to being OSS was "a good thing". Granted, Blender was under ransom prior to OSS, but still.
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money is not the only driving force of economy or of a man, YOU are one good example :-)
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@bkuhn you can leave a whole cake in the kitchen? I admire your self control sir lol however unnatural it is
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@bkuhn not quite. The fact that money is available means that it is available.,
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@carlopiana,heroin is available not far from where I'm sitting right now. Should I go get some of that too since it's available? No thanks!
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@bkuhn: Also, you're using identi.ca, right? That has been funded by VCs as well: http://is.gd/89JXc
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@bkuhn again it all depends on what you give away in exchange. Money corrupts the weak of spirit, we should know better.
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@bkuhn re the whole cake, YES. Cake is always good.
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@carlopiana where you fail at is that VC never let's you keep control. Sooner or later you'll have to do what they say.
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@joecool that's because I always sing "Can't Buy Me Love", but I don't need much, actually.
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@snapl,@evan took piece of cake,true. I expressed great worry at time! Carlo's right: rare,strong spirited might survive VC w/out corruption
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@bkuhn @carlopiana VC investors want only one thing, profit. They don't care about any ethical concerns that will reduce that, like min wage
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@carlopiana I think that it's so much harder to do it in a way their lawyers won't solve than not getting any.
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@thistleweb the important is that WE do care. Twitterers, follow the whole discussion: http://ur1.ca/m32w - We speak Venture capital
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are you suggesting some sort of reverse predatory finance? B-)
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@bkuhn: So, what examples of inherent corruption exist in accepting VC funding? Cash is neutral, and expectations are negotiable. Example?
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@snapl, advent of Open Core companies are primarily using a VC-designed system of GPL ghettoism. See my essay,Open Core is the New Shareware
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@bkuhn IMHO (biased ofcourse) the early investors in Red Hat did a good job for the community.
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@jwildeboer, but that wasn't Silicon Valley VC, was it? Didn't Bob Young mostly use angel investors through personal contacts + own money?
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to be clear I'm not stating money is bad: we all need it
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@bkuhn Red Hat also invests. Are we a VC? Or an angel investor? What is the difference anyway?
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@bkuhn: I think you broke my brain. http://is.gd/89O1q talks about proprietary business models with OSS, not VC's inherent evil with OSS.
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mine was just a joke :-)
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@bkuhn 1997 January Greylock and August Capital invest $6.25 million in Cygnus Solutions, first VCs to invest in a free software business.
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@jwildeboer, my main issue is amount of control exerted & percentage owned. In most VC scenarios, they get a majority control... & use it.
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@bkuhn and Cygnus did no good for community?
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@snapl, my point is: VCs usually insist "FLOSS" companies use a proprietary business model that gives maximum control of "IP", even if GPL'd
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@jwildeboer, Did August Capital/Greylock get majority control of Cygnus w/ the $6.25mil? If so, it's definitely a counter-example.
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@bkuhn you wanted one example of good VC investment, I claim Cygnus is that example. You agree?
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@bkuhn Cygnus was sold to Red Hat. And we still sell Cygnos contracts ;-) Michael Tiemann is still with us.
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@bkuhn so don't change the question. You wanted one example of VC doing sth good for FLOSS. Now you add control to it.
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@jwildeboer, I know of the sale & I've referenced it often. But that was a few years after the 1997 incident you refer to.
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@jwildeboer,traditional VC demands control. I agree not all VC is created equal. Recall conversation started regarding 10s of millions level
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@bkuhn Cygnus was in that range. They were doing 12 mio revenue after their first year AFAIR.
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@jwildeboer, indicates the VC in 1997 probably covered a short-term gap in revenue & was a small, minority share. More like a business loan.
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@bkuhn cygnus was founded 1989.
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@jwildeboer,As I said I know history of Cygnus pretty well. Founded 1989,no VC 'till 1997 helps prove my point it's more like business loan
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