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@jzb, “don't be negative” is not option in face of seductive bad stuff. alternatives may not be available yet; warning is still right !fsf
Friday, 18-Jun-10 12:57:36 UTC from xmpp- 0u likes this.
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@bignose the FSF *made* options available in the face of UNIX. I don't see any reason to stop there.
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@jzb as long as free software hackers will ignore options because they are “shiny” they'll never compete with what _defines_ “shiny”…
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@jzb silence helps abuser makes new victims; denouncing may avoid that, even when there's no alternative (yet?)
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@lxoliva The "abuser/victim" language is part of the problem. Way too extreme. Think about who you're trying to convince.
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@jzb victims of abuse, who often don't realize they're being abused, even though they feel something's wrong. like pedophilia
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@jzb picture someone criticizing abolitionists of slavery and you might grasp how I feel about what you wrote
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@lxoliva have you ever seen Manderlay, a movie by Lars von Trier? The abolicionist girl there doesn't have a clue about what she's doing
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@lxoliva old story, birds in a cage will always have dificulties to fly far from it if nobody shows them how to do that in a proper way.
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@f4bs It's a bit worse than that: sometimes they can't grasp the idea of flying away because they have no concept of "away"
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@lxoliva: Not everything against a fundamentally wrong idea is automatically good.
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@lxoliva this kind of subject, at least for me, can not have a binary answer as we're dealing with humans, not computers.
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@jzb Extreme terminology can be appropriate sometimes, but I weary of internal purity rants: http://bit.ly/aEohqH
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@jzb that was a really well written article you did on the fsf. I think it is spot on too. Dogma does nothing but hold us back
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@webmink Agreed on that. There is just too much extremism at times. Appreciation of software freedom doesn't need this.
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@eeefak, may you want read this conversation: http://identi.ca/conversation/36626141#notice-36848530
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@lxoliva Trying to draw a serious comparison between those things is ridiculous. Get a grip.
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@lxoliva,IMO,proprietary sw is nowhere near as harmful as human slavery. Proprietary sw is more akin to not living environmentally-friendly
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@lxoliva really? That is quite an extreme view.
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@bkuhn Living 'Green' doesn't benefit the self in the *immediate* sense as much as running Software Libre does. :)
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@webmink thanks for that insightful article and for playing the "(sometimes hated) outsider by all" so some of us can rest in GNUdea. :|
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@benanov, it's true, although sometimes people don't see immediate benefits to software freedom anyway, so it's akin in that respect.
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@webmink Or maybe it's more like "continue happily bickering in GNUdea."
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@jzb @bkuhn @carlopiana I acknowledge the diffs in scale. like all abusive relationships, should be opposed. like ur1.ca/099xb
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@lxoliva, problem is: scale is so wide here it looks cartoon-ish to compare the two. As programmers, we feel the harm more deeply than most
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@lxoliva denouncing ANY practice is the same thing as creating a religion, w/ itself is indistinguishable from the span…
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@lxoliva I find it amazingly hard to take you seriously when you persist in that kind of rhetoric.
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@bkuhn i think the general public feels the effects at least almost as much, actually. but they've alre…
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@jzb if you support Free Software values, I'm surprised you don't agree that non-Free Software is unethical and thus abusive
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@lxoliva open source doesn't mind user abuse by software developers, as long as it's abuse in the form …
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@lxoliva Are you seriously equivalencing proprietary software and pedophilia? Seriously? Wow.
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@webmink Internal purity battles will never stop as long as those on the receiving end of the "litmus tests" don't put their foot down.
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@lefty somebody did that already with slavery so they had to up the ante I guess
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