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Diese dumm kuh in der Apotheke was sagt die mir die Karten gäb es erst ab heute -.-
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@rootbox Eh... WAS?
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@fabsh attacking you? I was pointing out a weakness in your argument. read your yesterday's comments on how Ubuntu took criticism
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@fabsh geht um Karten für einen Ball die in einer Apotheke verkauft werden, die meinte die gäb es erst ab heute.. sind aber schon ausverkauf
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@fabsh but if you're going to take it on a personal level, I don't mind agreeing to disagree and leaving it alone
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@fabsh jetzt muss ich sehen wie ich noch an zwei karten drankomme sonst macht mich meine freundin zwei köpfe kürzer
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@rootbox Was für Karten? Apotheke? Hä??? Oo
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@lxoliva You weren't pointing out a weakness in my argument, you don't EVEN UNDERSTAND IT.
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@lxoliva If I say "I want to play game X" and you say "don't play games" there's obviously a disconnect of epic proportions there.
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@fabsh Also die Karten für den Schützenlustball in Neuss werden/wurden in einer Apotheke verkauft warum in eine Apotheke frage ich mich auch
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@lxoliva I understand that the FSF does not get gaming. That'S why we have no serious FaiF gaming out there.
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@fabsh Dabei mag ich gar keine Schützen, deswegen wird mir meine Freundin vorwerfen ich hätte absichtlich keine bekommen :S
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@fabsh have you considered for a moment that it may be you the one who doesn't understand my argument?
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@lxoliva ...which was the problem I was talking about re the blog post.
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@fabsh like, can you point out where it was that I s much as suggested “don't play games”?
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@rootbox Ah. OK. Das macht Sinn (ne, eigentlich nicht). Trotzdem viel Glück!
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@fabsh I have no idea of why you bring the FSF into this argument. I'm not even an FSF member.
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@lxoliva Your whole approach is simply one that's not going to work with me or 99% of the planet.
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@fabsh das macht null sinn^^ bis ich kapiert hatte das ich in eine Apotheke muss oO danke :)
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@lxoliva You are wearing an FSF shirt in your avatar. Anyway FSF was shorthand for "the people on the Libre side of the F/OSS spectrum".
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@lxoliva That was the first thing you said. Basically "if FaiF gaming isn't possible, maybe stop playing games".
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@fabsh having shown no understanding of my argument and making false assumptions about it, what good is your opinion on it?
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@rootbox Hehe.... Ich fühl auf jeden Fall mit. Ich kenn diese Art von Problemen... ;)
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@fabsh FSFLA, not FSF. different, autonomous organization
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@lxoliva You understand the concept of simplification, yes? You can extrapolate? If not, maybe microblogging isn't your ideal medium...
Tobias Diekershoff (old account) likes this. -
@lxoliva Who are you to judge? I didn't want to talk to you, I don't comment on your blog.
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@lxoliva Tell me a way I can play Fallout 3 using FaiF software, then.
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@fabsh why do you think I'm judging? why do you make so many assumptions about me, you don't seem to know anything about me
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@fabsh I don't know what Fallout 3 is. I didn't say you could play it with FaiF software
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@lxoliva You just told me my opinion is no good. That's judging in my book.
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@fabsh your wanting to play it doesn't imply you *have* to use non-FS, because you don't *have* to play it. it's your *choice*
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@lxoliva Which is EXACTLY my point: I can't. I am not making excuses, I CAN'T. That's what I wanted to talk about with Bradley.
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@fabsh I asked how good it was, given how baseless it appeared to be. it looks like *you* judged yourself
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@lxoliva I also don't *have* to use computers and software. I don't *have* to breathe either. I told you that argument was BS already.
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@lxoliva Yeah, whatever. Not interested you your smackdown-weasel routine, really...
Ed Morgan likes this. -
@fabsh just like CAN'T get past without a ticket, or over dead body. it's perfectly isomorphic. buying ticket or killing is still choice
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@fabsh: In fact you do have to breathe, it's a reflex. You cannot "decide" not to breathe, before you die, the reflex kicks in.
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@lxoliva Maybe, but it's not a very good argument because you can use it to justify ANYTHING. Including stuff that would invoke Godwin's...
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@tante Oh hell, I can decide not to breathe if I want to. I have a very large and sharp knife right here.
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@fabsh I think that's what @bkuhn was saying, no? You can't, so don't play it. You don't *have to*, nobody's *forcing* you. Play Nethack? :)
David Marsden likes this. -
@fabsh: That is not "deciding not to breathe", that is "destroying your breathing facilities". Semantically different things
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@tante Fuck semantics. Try to tell me the difference after I've demonstrated it on you...
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@fabsh: Don't shoot the messenger ;) Precision in phrasing can make or break an argument
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@tante I believe that communications are essentially imprecise and we have to deal with it. Schulz v. Thun and all that...
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@robmyers Come on, have you played a game like Fallout? That doesn't even begin to compare...
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@fabsh it would be my choice, my responsibility
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@fabsh, @jamestait expressed my position on your comment best. Video games are fully optional activities in society. They're 100% "want to".
David Marsden likes this. -
@lxoliva, the most #disturbing thing I discovered from your thread w/ @fabsh is that you are not an Associate Member of !FSF. How come?
Osama Khalid likes this. -
@bkuhn I'm a strong supporter, but at times I need to say “I'm not even a member” to make it clear that FSFLA is independent
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@bkuhn I'm not sure the reasoning makes much sense or is even worth it, but that's why
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@lxoliva, actually, that makes some sense to me. BTW, you can also give a donation without becoming an Associate Member if you want.
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@bkuhn So... How do you define "optional"? By that count we wouldn't need Emacs, text editors are optional for most people...
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@fabsh As an artist before I was a hacker, I find the idea of cultural works being optional slightly worrying. ;-)
Richard Fontana likes this. -
@robmyers True. I also think anybody needs to decide for themselves what is optional and what not. Gaming is not optional for me.
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@fabsh Particularly as we're in an open society. We can't judge whether things are optional or not on the basis of "historical necessity"...
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@robmyers You take the words right out of my mouth. :)
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@fabsh I'm an "intellectual property" thief??? ;-)
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@robmyers As we all know, there is no such thing as "intellectual property". ;)
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@bkuhn if emacs were proprietary, arguably there'd be no free software for you to care about.
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@bkuhn I think it's easy for you to make that judgement if you have no interest in games at all.
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@bkuhn I also thinks it's very #problematic to start judging what is important work and what not.
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@bkuhn As it stands, if I want to game I have to use proprietary software. And yes, this takes the wish to play games as a given.
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@fabsh,I think I'm pretty safe from #problematic saying video games aren't important work. I agree I've no interest: too much important work
Osama Khalid likes this. -
@fabsh what's the definition that you take?
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@fabsh, besides, I found patching !BusyBox this weekend a lot more enjoyable than any video game: and there's useful output at the end of it
Osama Khalid likes this. -
@bkuhn The problem is that this puts you at a disconnect with 99% of the planet.
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@bkuhn cannot agree more.
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@bkuhn I see this a lot with hardcore FaiF people and I think software freedom will largely fail because of it if there's no change.
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@bkuhn Well, I don't know if it's the generational differences but I doubt many people my age and younger would agree with you there...
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@fabsh I, 16-year-old, don't feel any disconnection with my classmates, there're other things in common (and much, much to do alone)
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@fabsh but I don't mind playing rarely where it doesn't violate my (and the community's) rights, but I'll never obtain one for my own.
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@fabsh, I consider videogames equivalent to other cultural works. Free culture is important, but free software is more important.
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@warp But video games ARE software!
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@fabsh well, whatever.. they are not and do not have to be disconnected.
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@fabsh in the sense that they don't play games? our movement will fail?
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@osamak The point is: Just because you and @bkuhn never play doesn't mean it's not important to many people.
rpcutts likes this. -
@osamak The movement might fail because the leaders are completely disconnected from the normal day-to-day lifes of average people...
rpcutts likes this. -
@fabsh, software is only a small part of a typical game (there are enough free game engines). The rest should be free too.
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@warp Totally wrong. All the good stuff is exactly 100% proprietary. Free engines my ass...
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@osamak So now you are calling me addicted because I like to play games... Forget it, this conversation isn't going anywhere...
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@fabsh Technically yes, but I wouldn't treat it like that. They're more entertainment stuff like movies IMO.
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@fabsh I never said so. I know, in person, some people who are addicted to it but I never suggested that you are. I never met you.
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@fabsh I (and rms, fsf and many other ppl) don't have the right to set some priorities for our advocacy goals? What are the priorities to u?
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@fabsh: Just to hop into the convo, I think the biggest problem with Linux is games. Everyone I know uses Windows because Linux has no games
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@fabsh, To be clear, the *only* thing I think isn't important is games. Pure diversions should always be 2nd class to useful stuff, IMO.
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@unknowndevice, Ogre3D should suffice for many of the games I enjoy. The soul of a videogame is in the art and mechanics, not the tech.
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@warp: That's idealistic and not true. Ogre is just a rendering engine and deliberately lacks all the features supported in most engines.
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@warp: I like Ogre and use it to make games, there is no open source alternative to something like Unreal or Cry Engine.
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@warp: From trying to port my games the main problem I have is everyone is "Ha forget that, there's real work to be done!".
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@warp: Sorry for the messages at once :)
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@fabsh, I realize that I have a very different life than most ppl on the planet; I admitted such in the blog post in question. It's who I am
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@unknowndevice , ooh games! :) Do you have anything which is finished / released I can have a look at?
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@sazius Software is not crucial. I can live my whole life without it. Software makes life better. So do games. @bkuhn
sazius (moved to status.saz.im) likes this. -
@gomerx Well said :)
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@warp: Lol Forza 3.
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@bkuhn I didn't say so. I don't know the guy. We're just talking about an issue of "99% of the planet", & he turned it to one about himself.
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@gomerx Sure, if you choose not to travel, use the metro or go to hospital (and in many cases you'll need not to drive).
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@osamak I've owned several cars without software in them. My bike doesn't have a computer. I travel just FIne. Again, not crucial, just nice
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@gomerx Software are crucial for traveling in plane (and yes, you can travel with your bike or software-less care without breaking the rule)
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@osamak You're using a different definition of "crucial" than I am. To me air travel is not crucial. And there ARE planes without computers.
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@bkuhn "Even if oficially few people admit it, one of the best ways of feeling at ease with a computer and a terminal is to play" Kernighan
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@bkuhn That was Kernighan (the grandfather of !neckbeards) in his "The Unix Programming Environment" book
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@bkuhn I used to be a gamer, but I've found coding / debugging to be as engaging as video games, and much more satisfying in the long run.
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@fabsh it's a fact that from a free software pov, it's not good to use non-free games. and few people a…
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@fabsh 99% of the planet? 100% good is proprietary? Free engine your ass? News: 20% lives without food or water. And you "need" good games??
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@fabsh A world with freedom not just in software but also in intellectual property and the economic model would be a much better discussion
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@econtrerasv Yes. Go join the Red Cross instead of being on identica. You have to, 20% of the planet are without food and water!
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@econtrerasv I don't give a fuck what you think is a better discussion. I have the discussions *I* find interesting.
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@fabsh HAHAHA Maybe i am already. Weren't you talking about coherent arguments before? Keep playing with yourself. Bye narrow minded!!
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@econtrerasv Is that supposed to be an insult? Try again, bucko.... LOL
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@fabsh If you get to Ireland you must visit http://dickmacks.homestead.com/
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@lxoliva Pretty lame addiction with the amount of time I actually spend playing games. You might call me an alcoholic but that one is lame.
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@nealq Made a note! :)
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@fabsh It's a little place but amazing :)
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@nealq Interesting site, for sure! :)
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@bkuhn I don't think addiction is by choice. it's not a fault of character, it's a natural weakness, so no rudeness was intended
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@bkuhn that's why I think this case is either choice (user is responsible) or addiction (it's out of the user's control)
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@lxoliva some addictions may be part choice.
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@lxoliva you know addiction to x runs in the family but you choose to try your luck and end up hooked. ?
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@zotz granted. there may be responsibility for decisions that led to addiction
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@rozzin Have you ever thought about the fact that some people might want to be devs but can't because their brain works differently etc.?
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@fabsh, is `some people' you?
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@fabsh, note that I gave you a direct and honest response with no weaseling. I'd appreciate if you respond with similar dignity....
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@rozzin It includes me. But there are many people I know who'd like to code in C but just can't. Just like not everyone can play violin.
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@rozzin I am not quite sure why you seem so pissed off and what I've done to deserve it.
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@fabsh: Your Wikipedia page said that you `spend your time hacking'.
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@fabsh: Sorry; I was actually quite calm and rational in asking you to avoid `weasel-phrases' (like "some people"), personal retort, etc. :)
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@fabsh: Though maybe my phrasing could have been better to indicate that I'm not pissed at you--just trying to keep it constructive :)
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@jargon That isn't true. OpenGL is used it A LOT of first order engines!
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@rozzin Eh.... I didn't even know I *have* a Wikipedia page. What makes you think it's correct?
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@rozzin I actually find that mildly offensive. When have I ever weaseled around on here??
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@rozzin Maybe you should talk to me a bit first before deciding my discussions aren't constructive...
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@fabsh: Well then..., congratulations? :)
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@rozzin I don't believe I have a Wikipedia page (and maybe that's good). Just checked.
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@fabsh no but it appears LO has a wpedia page
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@openuniverse Yeah. They wanted to delete it for ages, fuckers. BTW.... Can someone upload a newer picture of me?
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@fabsh deletionists really suck, i often think this should be fought with more specialized wikis (for example, a wiki f…
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@openuniverse Why delete anything? Storage space costs nothing these days.....
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@fabsh i would be sympathetic to a totally inclusive wikipedia, sure. on the other hand, i don't know i…
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@openuniverse It's text. How big can it get? It's only like 4 GB at the moment, right?
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@fabsh well this is one of the many things i'd prefer to be wrong about- given the choice i'd rather li…
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@fabsh, would I lie about something like that? :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Scherschel
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@rozzin It's a redirect to the podcast page....
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@fabsh, the Linux Outlaws site would be where Wikipedia got the `he spends his time hacking' claim, which is also on other pages of yours(?)
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@rozzin "hacking stuff" doesn't necessarily mean code. Gotta be precise.... ;)
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@fabsh, I took the `is a free software hacker' on LaMerk (as well as your git repos...) as indicating that `stuff' at least included code :)
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@rozzin What are you trying to do here?
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@rozzin Yes, I code some stuff. I wouldn't consider myself primarily a software hacker though. I hack way more waveforms... ;)
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@fabsh, ultimately, I'd like to find out whether your first response to me was a non sequitur or disagreement (and, if the latter, how/why).
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@fabsh: ... and this thread now has too many entries for me to load it in my browser. Are you still getting the context on these...? :)
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@rozzin Sorry, I can't remember now. You are way to persistent with this for this kind of medium.... Oo
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@rozzin Yeah, it's messe up a bit though.... LOL
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