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!fedora 12 name : Constantine !! ...
Sunday, 28-Jun-09 01:48:09 UTC from web-
@kagesenshi: As in Constantine from Hellblazer?
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@slackusr Are you talking about Constantine, that stranger friend of Lucy,,, ?
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RT @slackusr From RMS himself: Say no to mono: http://is.gd/1gsCP !monofree
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@kenami: From wikipedia: http://is.gd/1gtyk
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@slackusr Yeah. Its the same person. http://is.gd/1gyXR
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@kenami: That movie was a lame caricature of what the comic is.
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@slackusr I know that. Different languages, different perspectives.
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@slackusr in 1984 film. Winston is reading the f* book. XD
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@kenami: Which version?
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@kenami: The John Hurt version. That one was very accurate. Very good. I always imagined Julia to be prettier.
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@atoponce: RMS summarized it very well: http://is.gd/1gBBP
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@slackusr he also seems to be contradicting himself here: http://lists.kongoni.co.za/pipermail/kongoni-devel/2009-June/000264.html
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@atoponce: Another article, this time form a debian dev: http://is.gd/1gBPE
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@atoponce: I think it is also not needed. We already have lots of libraries and frameworks on linux, no need for some ms stuff.
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@atoponce: I'm about to leave ubuntu, and this issue behind.
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@slackusr then leave. that's the great thing with our community- pick what works for you. but remember, you'll always be infringing patents!
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@atoponce: But it is based upon ms specs, and will always be trailing behind the "real" stuff (.Net)
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@slackusr sure, and they could change the spec any day. the point now is, though, that we remain portable and api-compatible
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@atoponce: Well, the good thing is software patents are not allowed in my country. And I'm not leaving ubuntu due to this.
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@atoponce: I'm switching to a rolling release distro.
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@atoponce: I'm considering going back to sidux, but first I'm going to try sabayon.
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@atoponce: arch seems like too much work for me at this moment.
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@atoponce: why?
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@atoponce: I liked the fact that arch is a kde-only distro.
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@atoponce I fully agree with you, however I still see the potential issue of idea patents that MS may roll out for battle. Hoping 4 the best
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@atoponce: I want to try sabayon, and acquire ebuild powers
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@atoponce: I don't trust MS, and they consider us their enemies, as such I won't use anything they make (or are involved in)
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@atoponce: I don't believe in those "2%" numbers.
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@atoponce: I call bullshit. Apple propaganda. I think we linux users outnumber mac users.
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@atoponce: At least in my country, we clearly do.
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@slackusr La diferencia entre una semilla y un árbol es el tiempo. Y ms lo sabe.
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@slackusr you are ignorant, aren't you? these are globally collected stats from users who install counters on their web pages.
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@slackusr Estoy de acuerdo. No hay estadisticas de venta de linux hasta donde se.
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@slackusr how about this then? web developer operating systems that w3c has collected: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
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@atoponce: Like I said, at least in my country, those stats are completely wrong.
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@slackusr that's even high, as most web developers are more tech-savvy than the average computer user, and also testing on mult platforms
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@slackusr i'm talking globally
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@atoponce: Since there are no reliable linux statistics, any number is just something they pulled out of their asses.
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@atoponce: And I also think they cooked their numbers to make Apple look better that they really are,
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@slackusr dude. seriously. are you a conspiracy theorist?
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@slackusr did #wikipedia pad the numbers too? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
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@atoponce No. But given than some apple laptop costs about 3-4 times more than a better equipped PC, I find that number suspicious.
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@atoponce: Wikipedia is quoting the same sources. Circular reasoning.
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@slackusr and more sources, with similar data
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@atoponce: I feel they're trying to build a consensus that we (linux) are very few to matter.
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@atoponce: I like to use the 'how many people you know' test: I've seen maybe 12 mac in use in this country in my whole life.
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@atoponce: Here a mac costs 6-10 times the price of a more capable PC, so that would be the reason.
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@slackusr Linux counter es un buen numero referencia, pero no todos los usuarios se registran.
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@slackusr emperical evidence doesn't hold up well in an argument against hard, cold data
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@atoponce: I have no reason to trust them. Provide every and each data point and full methodology details. Otherwise, don't buy it.
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@atoponce: I think you're looking at it from a US perspective, where mac are more common due to schools promotion (and bribing?)
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@slackusr then look at each site counting site on how the stats are collected. your ignorance and stubbornness was funny but now getting old
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@slackusr no, i'm not. this is globally collected data. not us data. i'm not using empirical arguments.
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@atoponce not sure. They often go for the motto "attack early, attack cheaply, and stay more under the radar"
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@atoponce: What really mean is, since we linux users refuse to be tracked, we also can't be reliably counted.
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@slackusr i have news for you. if you visit http://pthree.org/ (my site), i've already got your os, browser, screen resolution, etc recorded
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@slackusr and guess what? it was recorded to http://statcounter.com/, added to their global stats
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@atoponce: Because I allow it, but I can choose not to (sometimes I do)
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@slackusr you're entertaining, i'll give you that. :)
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@atoponce: Look at the iPod, they're everywhere. If mac are more than linux, where are all the macbooks? I don't see them.
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@slackusr again, you need to detach from the empirical personal experiences. much too small of a reliable sampling. you need larger numbers
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@slackusr ande whet larger numbers than site counters?
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@atoponce: If their statistics are real, for each 19 win laptops you see, there would be 1 mac. It's been more like one for each 70 or so.
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@atoponce: The 140-char limit is annoying. Would like to take this to IM or IRC?
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@atoponce: I mean what you see on the streets, offices, etc. Not just what you use.
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@atoponce: Something on counting linux users: http://is.gd/1gEIR
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@atoponce: Another: http://is.gd/1gEMA
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@atoponce: They mention some Dell project. Nice. But still I'm not buying from Dell ever again.
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@slackusr now you're counting numbers. that's a completely different ball game than what we're discussing
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@slackusr i know the earth is 75% water, but i don't know how many gallons that is. apples and oranges
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@atoponce: I don't understand.
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@slackusr we're discussing market share, which is a piece of the pie, not how many people make up that piece
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@atoponce: How it is not the same thing?
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@slackusr a % is a piece of the total, regardless of the numbers of that total. the larger the sampling of the total, the more reliable data
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@atoponce: I still don't see your point.
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@atoponce: % if a function of the count, so they are interdependent.
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@slackusr but, do you know the total computer users world wide, so you can use that percentage reliably?
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@laserjock: But we have no other source to look for. I don't say to take it as true, but don't take apple's numbers a true either.
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hmm it seems that @atoponce and @slackusr long conversation isn't tracked properly #in_context :( continue on, don't mind me ;)
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@haris: Sorry. We should takes this elsewere. http://identi.ca/ is not a chat.
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@slackusr Creo que la idea es la de una encuesta, y no la de un censo. Se supone que sumando encuentas se obtiene un diagnostico mas preciso
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