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Does Fedora Have an Identity Crisis? http://lxnews.org/2011/01/24/fedora-identity-crisis/
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♺ @lxnews: Does Fedora Have an Identity Crisis? http://lxnews.org/2011/01/24/fedora-identity-crisis/ !lo
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@fabsh: oh noes ... I just installed fedora yesterday !! don't tell me this will take me back to Ubuntu :((
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@sorin7486 No, it won't. Fedora is very different from Ubuntu which is kind of Nicu's and my point...
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@vinzv Hard to say. It's really weird and hard to locate, but it definitely comes from higher up inside the community process.
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@fabsh: yeah I know but to be honest what I'd like to see is some of the Ubuntu polish without the make it stupid (aka apple) attitude :)
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@fabsh http://lxnews.org/2011/01/24/fedora-identity-crisis/ should have a link to the conversation instead of the the notice.
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@osamak The issue there is that you can't link to a conversation until it exists, since you won't know the conversation's ID beforehand.
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@psquid ah,I thought that conversations've the same # as the original dent. !Sn, is it possible to find the conversation # before it exists?
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We claim just including !fs as in #freedom, but we stick to crap like this: http://ur1.ca/2yncu ;freedom isn't a gift from Santa, !fedora
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@fabsh not so different if we follow the #mono trend originated in Microsoft-Novell, loved by Canonical, and now sticking on !fedoradesign
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@tzk that's mostly not caring enough for the 4 f's...
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@tzk Firmware doesn't run on the system. It doesn't make the system non-free.
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@tzk Sounds to me you are twisting the actually issue that's being talked about to push your own agenda.
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@nicubunu yep, at least we should say: we include just freesoftware apps, but don't count on that on kernel.
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@tzk I have no problem with Mono. It's free software and even RMS said there's no problem using it. Stop trolling.
Alistair McKinlay likes this. -
@fabsh sounds like you catched the issue about identity just when the default wallpaper discussion appeared.
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@tzk I don't understand that sentence. Seems to me it's gramatically #problematic.
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@gomerx do you really know about it? Since nobody knows what really does a non-free software, apart from the devels writing it?
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@fabsh please, would you mind give a reference of when/where @rms said mono is not a problem to !freesoftware?
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@tzk Yes, I do know that firmware doesn't run in the Linux kernel or on my system. That's fact, not subject to debate. Do some research.
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@tzk He said it's not a big problem to use, as long as you don't code new stuff. Go read his blog, I'm to busy to do your research for you.
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@tzk, #Mono is a problem for software freedom. *However*,the general problem of proprietary software w/out a !Free alternative is much worse
Mike Linksvayer likes this. -
@fabsh ok, i'll try again. When/where RMS said is !monofree or is not a #problematic issue to !softwarelibre?
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@fabsh @tzk, I'd like someone to start project compatible w/ #SparkleShare w/out #Mono; in meantime, no reason not to favor it over #Dropbox
Jason F. McBrayer likes this. -
@bkuhn Exactly what !fedoradesign decided.
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@bkuhn Ooooo so like status.net is with microblogging, you could use different clients and servers etc... and they would work with others?
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@bkuhn "Try to do whatever helps software freedom most" is what I always say.
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@tzk, are you saying that we don't need things like #SparkleShare & should instead just use !Git directly? Not everyone has those skillz.
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@akfoerster I have a Windows CD in the other room. Does that make my Fedora install non-free? Where do you draw the line?
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@bkuhn uh... ownCloud?
Jesús E. Franco Martínez likes this. -
@bkuhn i'm just saying it's not so hard typing git add . && git commit && git push. What about #RabbitVCS? http://rabbitvcs.org/
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@tzk I swear this is the first viral bugfix
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@akfoerster That analogy only works if Fedora is recommending I install Windows on a non-Fedora system. Still doesn't taint Fedora, IMO.
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@trashbird1240 yep, kinda of. But some people just cares about their hurt feelings, not about the crude and ugly true.
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@akfoerster What if I download a web page from a server running Microsoft IIS? Is my browser non-free now?
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@gomerx you're non-free!
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@akfoerster The way I see it, the user made their system non-free by buying non-free hardware. The kernel is innocent. I could be wrong
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@davidmarsden Oh, I'm definitely free. I'm just not completely FREE!!!! :)
Tim Obialo likes this. -
@gomerx I thought you had a job? :-p
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@fabsh you twisted the RMS words: "[C# apps] writing them and using them is taking a gratuitous risk." !q http://ur1.ca/6d0x
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@akfoerster The kernel is nice enough not to pass judgment on others, wrong though they may be. :) To me, that's freedom.
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I don't agree automatically @rms words, but taking him as support of your #careless-computing is plain #unethical !gnu !Monofree ur1.ca/7hj1
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@tzk From your own link: "This is not to say that implementing C# is a bad thing". See, I can sling quotes about too.
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@psquid i think you lose the conclusion: "we should discourage people from writing programs in C#", using Sparkleshare is not "discouraging"
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@tzk Agreed. Writing something new in it is not a desirable outcome. That said, I would rather Sparkleshare was developed in C# than not ..
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@tzk .. developed at all.
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♻ @tzk: taking @rms's words as support for your careless-computing is plain unethical ur1.ca/7hj1
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@gomerx: ahh this is why the zealots suck and people dont use linux who wants to deal with people like that arrogant morons is all they are
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@alisonchaiken wow, they're going to do that? I don't even think Ubuntu took that step, did it?
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@tzk No clue what you're trying to say, but you seem a bit upset. Get some fresh air.
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@onedot no, i really not. I've said what i wanted to. I would be really upset if someone were tried to censor me. But it didn't happen. :)
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Tim Obialo likes this.
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@bkuhn I assume you want a simple "sync these folders" GUI? There are other GUIs like RabbitVCS, but they support more features.
Jesús E. Franco Martínez likes this. -
@tzk what's going on? I can't understand why everybody is angry.
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@bkuhn I assume you want a simple "sync these folders" GUI? There are other GUIs like RabbitVCS, but they support more feat… sngpl.ma/t49y7
Jesús E. Franco Martínez likes this. -
@fabsh, very impressive... have fun
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@cleitonlima i just don't feel Mono lovers, care too much about the first F on Fedora, like they don't care misquoting RMS &FSF position.
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@pmate I *am* having fun. :)
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@tzk you're right. I don't like !mono, too. We have too many open alternatives
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@tzk My point was that distros are imho trying too hard to descide for users what they want, throwing choice out by saying "we"/"community".
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@bkuhn I disagree that closed software is worse than mono, which seems almost like a plant to extort royalties later...
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@onedot i'm completely agree with you, really. Just this weekend i was giving a talk about how much users need to become involved...
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@onedot in order to see their beloved distros/communities flourishing in the direction they want to. Another approach is just fanboyism.
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@tzk It really depends on the community. One particular community has shown reMARKable resistance to user input.
Jesús E. Franco Martínez likes this. -
@lnxwalt280 agreed. this was another point in my talk: choose the community in which your voice can be heard; or start a new one.
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@lnxwalt280 and yes, i cited the reMARKable statement: "this is not a democracy"; it's like to say, this is my company, my trademark!!! ;)
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@cleitonlima yes, that is a key point than is missed so many times. Just now i'm trying we define well goals/methods of revista !fedoralatam
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@cleitonlima rather than "having a nice PDF published every month" #wtf. I liked a lot Brazillian #fedora magazine, i have to say.
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@alisonchaiken Okay wait a minute: that *is* troubling. The most annoying thing about !debian family is leaving out man pages
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@osamak !ubuntu never has the man pages I need; it's friggin' annoying
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@fabsh Faulty assumptions combined with taking as fact that which is not in evidence... I'm confused by the purpose. Oh well.
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@trashbird1240 @sorin7486 It used to be !Fedora Core, never Fedora Linux. And yet we say Linux all the time, & proud to be Linux.
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@stickster So you think we don't have a problem and a clear audience we are targetting?
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@trashbird1240: *confused*... I don't think we were talking about the name.. but yeah it used to Fedora Core which sounded really bad TBH
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@fabsh Audience has been set out, sorry you weren't aware earlier. Problem to me is too much desire to keep F in a niche.
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@stickster I just think saying "everyone who wants FOSS and will be contributing" isn't a good audience specification.
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@trashbird1240 hmm, AFAIK, it did come with debian man pages. They're not equally good but better than nothing.
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@osamak: Yes, !debian man pages, but for some reason never the one I need right now; they should be installed by default, they're essential
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@stickster: !fedora doesn't deny any associations AFAIK; !ubuntu are trying too hard to distinguish themselves (lately)
diablomarcus likes this. -
@trashbird1240 Indeed, Fedora tries to be close to upstream, which is why I don't understand the "dumbing down" opinion
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