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@phayte works really good on my main desktop.
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please, can I have my GNOME version back? ♻ @remin: Natty Narwhal with Unity: Worst !Ubuntu beta ever http://bit.ly/gWcwLm
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@rysiek: meh,you are always complaining ;) New Unity takes some time to get used to,but then works fine (he said and switched back to emacs)
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@phayte: gnome panel is STILL in ubuntu : select classic desktop at login one time. It will remember this
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@kklimonda that's what SHE said ;) srsly, Unity is *not ready*. and I cannot recommend it t my friends and cow-orkers.
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@phayte: it will be gone by default. but I'm sure it will stay in repos for few years. Exactly as it will be for others distro.and then ppa!
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@rysiek: Neither can I, but then I recommend LTS to anyone who just want a working system. Unity is ready for early adopters and tinkers.
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@rysiek: ...and I'm pretty sure that they will make Unity ready for "mainstream" before the next LTS release.
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@kklimonda great. I'm all for it. just make it an *option* till it's ready. not the default, ffs!
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@rysiek: but someone has to test it, so it's ready. It's the basic problem with FOSS when you want fast iterations - we need testers.
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@rysiek: FOSS projects don't have resources to do as much testing as Microsoft and Apple does, but we need this testing to keep up with them
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@kklimonda true. but why fsck the experience for all users? want testers - great! do it as an *option*! I regularly use alpha/beta software
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@rysiek: I think the goal is to get as much testing as possible.And it is still only an option (selected by default). Old GNOME is there too
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@rysiek With KDE4 was the same problem. Lots of people complains about new version, but now I think almost everyone KDE's user is happy. ;)
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@kklimonda it's the default. bad idea. you do *not* send testing-quality software as your main default. this ends bad, always.
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@ubiquit and I still think that kubuntu jumped to kde4 as default much too fast. should have waited till 4.2 or 4.3; but have 4.0 as option!
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@rysiek: but it has to be tested before the LTS release by as many people as possible.
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@rysiek: the only complain I've had for a long time is that non-LTS releases should be really called "tech previews" rather than "stable".
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@phayte: That's the strengh of free software !
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@kklimonda they should do either: name the non-LTS releases as "tech previews" or "testing versions" OR make unity only a non-default option
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@rysiek: so we can either get not enough testing for Unity (because it's going to be tested only by tech-savvy users, and we are biased)...
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@rysiek: ...or we basically tell our users that they should use 2 years old software, because the new one comes with radical changes..
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@rysiek: in other words we are pretty much screwed anyway ;)
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@kklimonda great. but do't you think we should be, well, honest towards our users? I mean, come on! this is testing on live people, with
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@karakh: Yeah I know, it's nasty. I've been pretty careful with noise over the years for precisely that reason. I like being able to hear!
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@rysiek: but I agree with you, I'm just saying that we have to do this testing on live people as fast as possible.
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@kklimonda yes. but rolling out unfinished software as the default desktop is *not* the Right Way to do that.
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@rysiek: ok, but what's your proposal? If we miss the 12.04 target, because Unity did not get enough testing, we have to wait another 2 yrs.
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@rysiek: at this time both Microsoft and Apple are releasing their software faster and faster. And we are staying behing...
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@rysiek: ...making it harder for us to compete. Please, can we move this discussion to some other medium? 140 limit is killing me ;)
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@kklimonda stop competing with MS and Apple based on feature count; compete with quality, consistency, safety, freedom - and honesty.
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@kklimonda jabber? mine - same as e-mail.
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@rysiek Just selecting the classic desktop should do the trick
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@gvs tell that to my non-tech-savvy friend that will be installing Ubuntu soon. the solution here - "use Mint, man!"
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@phayte yeah mint debian is really nice.
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