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@fontana I obviously don't understand the difference. In both cases A gives to B who gives to C. Why does physical vs digital matter? #TTU
Wednesday, 27-Apr-11 09:48:15 UTC from web-
German !Linux user recieved cease-and-desist order and a 700€ bill for downloading !Debian via BitTorrent: http://l.vinzv.de/1a #cormorants
Srdjan Todorovic and Jameen D'Aziz like this. -
@vinzv ich habe auch schon oft post wegen allem moeglichem bekommen... bei mir war es nicht linux, aber das ist egal
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@vinzv das ist eben ein lukratives betrugsgeschaeft und wird so lange weiterlaufen, wie leute drauf reinfallen und zahlen
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@gustopn Jap, leider. Und so lange die Gesetzgebung dagegen nichts unternimmt, machen die immer fröhlich weiter.
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@nsmadlinx yeah thats germany… unfortunatly :/
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@nsmadlinx It's actually a cease-and-desist letter, not an order (i.e. no judge involved yet).
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@nsmadlinx Yes. German law kinda strange allowing such things which make me puke.
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@leannec Absolutely. And this case is just one symptome of how ancient and outdated copyright laws are.
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@leannec @vinzv, the fact that one can't legally #torrent !Linux is a known bug in !GPLv2. Its © holders should upgrade to GPLv3 to fix this
uıɐɾ ʞ ʇɐɯɐs likes this. -
@bkuhn Don't think that's the point in this case. The lawyers just admonished for torrenting and didn't care for GPL or other licenses.
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@bkuhn But it was the *official* Debian torrent taken from www.debian.org!
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@bkuhn And furthermore the chambers stated that the user violated the rights of "Media Art Holland b.v"!
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@srdjantodorovic are you saying that this isn't true?
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@vinzv, Please note: *technically speaking*, !Debian project itself violates !GPlv2 w/ #torrent distribution too! All who use it infringe ©.
Kete Foy likes this. -
@vinzv, that part,of course, is incorrect & I agree w/ you. My German skills are pretty weak so I may have misunderstood some of the article
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@bkuhn Uh?! Wasn't aware of that... Do you have any link to a source about this problem?
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@osamak .. difference?
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!disturbing: ∃ members of !FaiF community who don't realize !GPLv2 doesn't allow for #torrent distribution. I gotta give my GPLv3 talk more.
Christopher Allan Webber likes this. -
@bkuhn No problem. I think there are two totally different worlds: GPL licensing/infringements versus the real world's laywers behavious.
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@bkuhn You mean http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#BitTorrent right?
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@bkuhn Given Linux is staying GPLv2, what you are saying seems to be Linux torrents are © infringing and there's no way round that. Yes?
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@bkuhn then downloading a .deb from packages.debian.org is infringment too -- source ISOs exist :)
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@bkuhn I hadn't known this. Interesting esp since "GNU/Linux distro .iso distribution" popular example of good & legal torrent usage.
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@bkuhn That's an unfair characterisation of the devs; many have considered it and have rejected it.
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@bkuhn Did you complete on that action item?
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@bkuhn Would it even be possible to contact all copyright holders of the code?
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@srdjantodorovic I recommend reading the GPLv2 & v3. They allow only certain methods of distribution & when v2's released, p2p wasn't used.
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@codepope, isn't it IMOTTMCO from the context that I haven't completed it yet? That's why I put "OTOH," in the front to note they're waiting
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@srdjantodorovic,How's it scare tactic to create license a decade bf. particular distribution method exists &fail to see future? !GPL !Linux
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@bkuhn In my job I like to confirm the apparently intuited obvious; sometimes it leads to horribly crossed wires.
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@bkuhn you ever meet any lawyers from Northeastern University? I hear they have a really good public sector law program…
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Bradley M. Kuhn
Software Freedom Conservancy
, Red Hat
, The GNU General Public License
, Richard Fontana
@fontana, !Conservancy can always use more pro-bono lawyers who want to help w/ !GPL enforcement. I presume !RedHat wouldn't let you.
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@marxistvegan, No, I haven't. In my experience, public sector lawyers have no interest in software freedom as a social justice issue, sadly.
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@bkuhn that is very sad...I've seen so many public sector lawyers and students at NU fighting for worker rights and I j…
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@bkuhn that is very sad :( I should go give a talk to the students at NU :)
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Bradley M. Kuhn
Fedora users
, Free Software Foundation
, Red Hat
, The GNU General Public License
, Richard Fontana
@fontana,perhaps, but not really. !FSF knows that if it enforced a !GPLv2 technicality, !RedHat would argue v3 back for !Fedora distribution
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@marxistvegan,sadly, it'll probably be centuries bf. anyone but those deeply committed to software freedom'll see it as social justice issue
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@fontana, It's !disturbing that you believe "no one enforces !GPL on mere technicalities" given that you're aware of #Mikos & his like.
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@bkuhn interesting, my guess is the reading of §3's "same place" is taken to mean "same protocol", right?
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@fontana, I think you actually mean "I have no knowledge of that other than your representations". I've explained this to you many times.
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@bkuhn did you mean that you would support enforcing GPLv2 on p2p distributors?
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@bkuhn I've been looking for the supporting argument in gplv3.fsf.org, but found little so far: http://ur1.ca/3zrud
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Bradley M. Kuhn
Free Software Foundation
, The GNU General Public License
, vinzv
, Marcelo
, Richard Fontana
@mem, @fontana indicated where to look in !GPLv3 rationale documents & @vinzv linked to !FSF GPLv3 FAQ entry on it. Pls see rest of thread.
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Bradley M. Kuhn likes this.
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@bkuhn the !debian isos do contain a promient pointer to http://ur1.ca/3zsao, the mirrors as well as a copy of http://ur1.ca/3zsap
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@bkuhn but I think it's a different issue: when using bittorrent you'd be redistributing *before* having a chance to review the license
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@fontana, that's my point. I am pretty sure !FSF is only in direct possession of @rms' drafts, not others that #PowersThatBe worked on.
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@bkuhn err, how? uploading (distributing), maybe; downloading, no, AFAIK
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@bkuhn if you haven't started it yet, you can base it on http://ur1.ca/3ztl2 that justifies all GPLv3 changes
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@fontana, If it's a 10 minute thing to do, email @brettcsmith & ask. But please realize people at "normal" non-profits are way overworked.
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@bkuhn that's an understatement and also goes for unions too
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@bkuhn But what would the bill be for? where is the material loss to be compensated? I'm a bit confused here
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@bkuhn if one put source and binary in the same archive, would it cease to infringe ©? or is the problem greater due to what is pulled in?
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@fontana, you do, in fact, remind me of #Larry_Wall from time to time. You both have similar communication styles, for one thing.
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@bkuhn Any chance you post a blog/post etc w/background on the GPLv2/BitTorrent issues? Or is FSF et al purposefully hush about it?
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@bkuhn follow up to the #torrent #gpl conversation from yesterday: can you please take a look at http://ur1.ca/40hfy
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@rrix only up to #disturbing :)
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