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@fontana, I agree. @jonobacon gets mad at me when I call his !Canonical position a PR role,but it really is (IMO) & he's very good at it,too
Sunday, 15-May-11 18:52:08 UTC from web-
I am paying €0.30/min to have a rather !disturbing telephone conversation with @fontana. It is worth it, but still disturbing.
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@fontana, what I found !disturbing was you didn't know Lennart #Poettering *is* a !RedHat employee. Why do you think !Fedora used #systemd?
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sazius (moved to status.saz.im) likes this.
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@fontana I made clear he works for RH when we interviewed him. ;)
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@fontana No worries. :)
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@bkuhn Red Hat employing lead developer makes adoption faster but I would say it would happen regardless. systemd > upstart > sysvinit
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@fontana, that means you forgot, at some point, that #Poettering was a !RedHat employee, which is even more !disturbing, don't you think?
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@rahulsundaram, But !Fedora was first to adopt #systemd is entirely because Lennart works for !RedHat, which helped make it popular.
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@bkuhn Fedora has adopted many new technologies first regardless of where it came from. It is just the nature of the distribution
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@rahulsundaram,you can't know if it'd be adopted otherwise. #systemd's popularity boosted by !Fedora, which occured b/c Lennart's at !RedHat
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@fontana, yes, that's why I found it !disturbing. I'd imagine you wouldn't know less-famous !RedHat employees, but #Poettering is famous.
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@bkuhn You applied to RH as well? You coroprate bastard! :D
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@mcepl, I have an !Android / !Linux phone, the #HTC_Dream. I currently run a Cyanogen build with most proprietary libraries removed.
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@fontana, I will agree with that much: #Poettering is famous (or, as some tell it, infamous) for pulseaudio, not for working at !RedHat.
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@bkuhn Interesting. :)
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@mcepl @bkuhn works for !conservancy,
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@mcepl, I applied these other places many years ago; that's what I'm talking about. Working for !Conservancy is just fine, actually...
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@bkuhn SFLC isn't a company, though.
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@fabsh @mcepl, I told !Conservancy's Directors when I was offered paid position: I'd still be outspoken on all !FaiF sw issues;they approved
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@mcepl, actually, !Conservancy really *isn't* an advocacy org, which is why it's easy for me to do !FaiF issue advocacy separately from it.
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@bkuhn Of course it's a PR role. What is he saying it is? Oo
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@mcepl, If !Conservancy has an advocacy position,it's probably just one: "!FaiF software is developed better when it has a non-profit home".
Mike Linksvayer likes this. -
@fabsh, you'd be surprised at how much some non-profit orgs end up being not too different from for-profit companies. It's !disturbing.
Mike Linksvayer likes this. -
@bkuhn Do you need a community manager to do some PR work on that? :D
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@bkuhn Really? Heh. That kinda defeats your argument that they are better....
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@fabsh, it's only for-profit company projects who need Community Managers,b/c they're trying to get volunteers to do gratis work for company
Lars Wirzenius and Osama Khalid like this. -
@fontana I don't think it's actually that hard to do. You just need to squeeze your balls together, I'd do it only for *very* good money.
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@bkuhn Damn. :(
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@fabsh, any institution or system can be corrupted. But, NPOs have a really good chance of serving public good. For-profits almost never do.
Mike Linksvayer likes this. -
@bkuhn: you applied for my job? never knew. also, I don't remember you applying for a job on my team.
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@jonobacon, I'm quite sure I applied for a job that when hired, it later reported to you. I think I was filtered out by HR for both apps.
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@bkuhn: maybe...I certainly never saw a resume passed to me with your name on it, I would remember that
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@fontana: LOL
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@bkuhn: I doubt you are blacklisted, probably just not right for the given job. Mind you, you don't do yourself any favors sometimes... ;-)
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@jonobacon, Actually, I *am* doing myself a favor. I regret even considering working at these companies; not having chance avoids temptation
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@bkuhn heh, whatever makes you happy, buddy. :-)
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Bradley M. Kuhn likes this.
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@jonobacon, in all seriousness, an important part of my role in the !FaiF sw community is being a "critic" on corporate actions toward us.
sazius (moved to status.saz.im) likes this. -
@bkuhn speaking of which, where are you working right now?
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@bkuhn nothing wrong with that, particularly if you can do it and put food on the table
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@jonobacon , I've been full-time at !Conservancy since 2010-10-01: http://sfconservancy.org/news/2010/oct/04/kuhn-executive-director/
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@bkuhn is that a position in which you receive an annual salary?
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@jonobacon,if forced to chose btw speaking my software freedom beliefs &a job,I'd work at a !coffee shop& switch fully to !FaiF sw volunteer
Osama Khalid and Michael V. Antosha like this. -
@jonobacon,yes,I've been paid a full-time salary by !Conservancy since 2011-01-01. It'll be clear on our FY 2010 Form 990 when it comes out☺
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@bkuhn Well, I'd have to do it in that position.
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@bkuhn cool :-)
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@fabsh, I'm still confused. Are you saying your falsetto must be unusually high to be a Community Manager for a for-profit company?
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@bkuhn good for you :-)
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@jonobacon, all executives of USA non-profits have to have their salaries published;I keep track of this for FLOSS NPOs: http://ur1.ca/2pltg
der.hans likes this. -
@bkuhn I checked out the spreadsheet and for the SFC is says N/A for the fields - so how much is your salary, out of curiosity?
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@jonobacon,it says N/A b/c newer 990s aren't done yet;I didn't get started paying a salary until 2011-01. It'll be listed on our FY 2010 990
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@bkuhn oh I see, yeah I saw you were working 5 hours a week in the 2009 990 so I assume it went to 40hrs a week in 2011-01
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@jonobacon, if I could fit my work for !Conservancy into a mere 40 hours/week, that would be wonderful. It's usually approaches 60-ish now.
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@bkuhn No, I'm saying to do that job and say things I don't mean I would have to punish myself because I know I'd be doing wrong.
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@bkuhn Worse, I don't mind doing wrong stuff, but doing stuff I don't believe in is very hard for me. Makes me sick.
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@bkuhn BTW, are you saying I have a falsetto? My voice isn't *that* high I hope. Oo
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@fabsh: I don't work for a non-profit, so none of your business. :-)
Juliana John likes this. -
@bkuhn how would you reconcile with the proprietary PoS software you'd use as a coffee shop employee (I'm assuming)?
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@bkuhn plenty of NPO and no-org free software projects have community mgrs, though I find the title !disturbing in all cases.
Richard Fontana likes this. -
@bkuhn I would dearly love to see even handwavy attempt to gauge prob of doing public good for various org structures (+their contexts)
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@fontana Some people would say that's not a compliment at all
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@bkuhn Is Fedora the first to adopt? I think some other smaller distros might have been first out-the-door. in this case
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@bkuhn That's unfortunate. You should try my #N900 some day. Real shell and #Python built-in give it more #generativity than #Android IMO.
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@jonobacon I thought it was the obvious question. ;)
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@mlinksva, I didn't realize the title "Community Manager" had drifted back *into* FLOSS projects *from* the for profit space. !Disturbing !
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@bkuhn I'm not holding that bet, mate. I think you're right.
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@jspaleta,if that's true,my entire assessment about #systemd & !Fedora adoption was wrong. Perhaps #Poettering didn't have special influence
Juanjo Marin likes this. -
preimi likes this.
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@mairin, Indeed. I find it !disturbing that @fabsh brought up this idea in the first place & I'm still confused what it has to do w/ topic.
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@fabsh, BTW Form 990s now show "non-salary compensation" (e.g., perks & benefits). Most forget this part in salary calculation.
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@fabsh 'We have two of the most important things in life, coffee and freedom!'
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@bkuhn It was an offhand comment, you are clearly reading too much into it.
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@fabsh, I realize it was off-hand. I just didn't really understand what "testicle squeeze" had to do w/ "compromising beliefs". That's all.
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@mlinksva, I think the key litmus test on NPO "public good" meter is how much funding comes from indivdiuals vs. for-profit corporations.
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@bkuhn it could be another of @fabsh's !disturbing metaphors
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@bkuhn Well, it's a German manner of expression. "Die Eier zusammenkneifen."
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@fabsh, interesting to learn that German has the same slang for testicles as many Spanish-speaking countries: "huevos" is also "eggs".
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@bkuhn Yeah. Eier and Sack are mostly used in German.
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@bkuhn: if you want to compare notes in that space for Italian too, I have conducted extensive researches (I have 98 names for "penis")
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@carlopiana well everyone has it's obsesions ;-P
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@bkuhn It's high time we stop worring about what corperations can do for us and work on what we can do for ourselves.
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@bkuhn They is a very active work at bringing community supported free software to the n900. even more so than android
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@sandersch: not an obsession. Curiosity about one's own language (perhaps this is the single word with more current synonyms)
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@sandersch Not you Italians in general. Because apparently italians are obsessed by the penis, if it has the most synonyms.
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@bigbrovar, you don't have to tell me that! But, at the moment, fabricating phones is not something the community can do, unfortunately.
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@bkuhn I think #MeeGo will remain for a while: http://ur1.ca/46z21 Should know in a week. I guess I prefer GNU/Linux to Android/Linux. #N9
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@bkuhn people said that about Linux in the early 90s, if people like RMS had just rolled over and died we wont be where we are today.
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@bkuhn all am saying is we should join hands and make this work, it can work, NEVER underestimate the power of the community.
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@bkuhn the N900 right now is the only device which now gets updates from community developers. all they beed is the will.
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On what grounds? Maemo is terrific on my N810 (not a phone, but same form factor), and Meego looks fantastic.
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@kevingranade It was a joke.... You'd have to listen to http://linuxoutlaws.com/podcast/ogg/115 to get it.
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@bkuhn how so? there is no consumer implementation of a gnu phone to compare.
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@bkuhn Seems I messed up some conversation threading by deleting target of http://identi.ca/notice/73620926 . May want to rebase on this.
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@bkuhn If mandriva had stuck with its original schedule they would have beat Fedora 15 out the door with default systemd support.
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@bkuhn every os whichn has been scaledd down to mobile phones have issues. Symbian designed 4 phones is already dead.
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@bkuhn And i would have thought the public pushback in Fedora against systemd as default in F14 would have suggested lack of influence.
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@bkuhn taxes.... still... too... *simple*... must... make... more... *complex*.....
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@bkuhn Assuming that you can call the current crop of devices a telephone
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@jonobacon, to follow up on this thread,if you wanna know my FY 2011 salary, #Conservancy's FY 2011 Form 990 is published: ur1.ca/cxjuk
Christopher Allan Webber likes this.
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