Conversation
Notices
-
@jargon Explain what being "dressed in a certain way" means. What is provocative to a rapist of women is not provocative to a rapist of men
-
Things that cause rape: http://i.imgur.com/V6p0X.jpg via !reddit
-
@jargon: I'd say about 100% true.
-
@jargon If I cook a dinner for X that X doesn't like, and X then kills me, it isn't because of the dinner, it's because X is a murderer.
Brian van den Broek likes this. -
@jargon: Nope, no stats that illustrate any percentage of raped women were "asking for it", if that's what you mean...?
-
@jargon: Maybe some context is needed for the photo I posted: http://ur1.ca/4dq1o
-
@jargon Analogy is bang on. My point is the dinner is simply the murderer's excuse. They will always find one, as will a rapist or a bully.
-
@jargon Someone who is not a murderer will not murder, no matter the "provocation." Just as someone who is not a rapist will not rape.
-
@jargon There is a huge difference between fantasy and reality. What happens in fantasy or between consenting adults is not applicable.
-
@jargon I'm with @laurelrusswurm. Yes, victims of both crimes can have behaved imprudently. It remains that the perpetrator is to blame.
-
@jargon If someone is into S & M - which is roll play - that is not the same as wanting to be really tortured ... the point is consent.
-
@laurelrusswurm I wouldn't exactly have picked that as an example for fantasy vs reality, but sure....
-
@jargon I don't think you grasp the meaning of the word "victim." A victim has NOT given consent. Rape IS 100% originated from the rapist.
-
@tekk Well, it's a reasonable equivalent; any s&m fans tortured by Nazis haven't "asked for it" either.
-
@jargon The causal complexity claim is surely true. But, the most important is clear, and fixation on others often used to distract or to >
-
@jargon >somehow "justify." (Not saying that you are so doing. Registering a worry about how such concerns often deployed.)
-
@jargon It falls into the same faulty reasoning that supposes watching violent films makes people violent. Not true.
-
@jargon No he is not. He is simply stupid. If he is beaten, those beating him have committed a crime.
-
@jargon Certainly there is something broken in a rapist. And there may be something broken in the victim. I have read studies that say...
-
@jargon I once got mugged while walking with drunk with headphones in bad part of town. There was more to it than "He's a mugger". But none>
-
@jargon I think the rapist is to blame for a rape. That doesn't mean women shouldn't be responsible for their behavior.
-
@jargon >of that takes away from the mugger being the bad actor. It was imprudent to do as I did, but I surely ought to be able to do so.
-
@jargon ... rape victims are attacked more than others; not because they invite it, because they show fear which attracts predators.
-
@jargon Just change the age of the victim. If a 6 year old child is dressed "provocatively" in a skimpy beach wear is rape justified? Never.
-
@jargon ...but you are. You are being a rape apologist. You are blaming the victim. !feminism !enraged
laurelrusswurm likes this. -
@jargon It's an issue that concerns me. I see people acting like objects, then complaining they get treated liked objects. It's confusing
-
@jargon Yes. Often stupid and dangerous behaviour results from thoughtlessness, inexperience and/or inebriation.
-
@jargon Driving when drunk doesn't = asking to be killed in a flaming wreck anymore than bad judgment means a woman is asking to be raped.
Luke Slater likes this. -
@jargon "nobody's saying a woman is always asking to be raped." NO. Women NEVER ask to be raped.
-
@jargon Just as murder victims NEVER ask to murdered. It is NOT the victims fault, it is the fault of the perpetrator.
-
@jargon Bad judgement does NOT "lead to things like becoming a rape victim" it leads to not being on guard when in the presence of rapists.
-
@jargon Because one is not careful is not the same as being responsible for being raped. The ONLY person responsible for rape is the Rapist.
-
@jargon Rape is ONLY the fault of the rapist. If a rapist's chosen victims are female, then being born female is enough to be the target.
-
@jargon If a rapist's chosen victims are male, being born male is enough. If the rapists chosen victims are children, being born is enough.
-
@jargon A woman tending crops in her village is EXACTLY comparable to one who's dressed in a certain way & intoxicated at a bar.
-
@jargon Both are human beings who have the human right NOT to be abused, attacked, raped, or victimised.
-
@jargon Neither a woman tending crops or a woman intoxicated at a bar, or a child on the beach deserve to be raped.
-
@jargon How a woman dresses has nothing to do with rape, the excuse rapists use excuse their crime. There is NO justification for rape.
-
@jargon Do you blame money for being stolen? If your grandmother is mugged is it her fault? No. It is ALWAYS the fault of the criminal.
-
@laurelrusswurm Perhaps @jargon does not understand that you do not rape someone because you find them attractive.Rape is an act of hatred
-
@jargon what a discussion ;-) but if a white guy walks into a black neighbourhood with a "FUCK NIGGERS!" shirt. He needs a correctional ..
-
@jargon turning that around... if you go to a bar naked and a gay rapist there decides to sodomize you there, it's *your* fault?!?
-
@jargon Scientific? That's pretty obvious. If someone raped my daughter or mom would need science to understand that he/she hates them.
-
@jargon In fact if someone raped me that would never buy that it was because he was attracted to me, or I had dressed provocatively
-
@jargon if you dress up to please yourself or your partner, is it acceptable for others to decide you want to be raped?!?
-
@jargon Yet to meet a woman who told me they had asked to be violated.
-
@jargon if people can't control their impulses while drunk, they should avoid drinking to stay out of trouble
-
@jargon now, an interesting question is whether a party that consented while drunk is entitled to claim when sober it was rape
-
@jargon well, your being alive, or even having a body, contributes to your being a potential rape victim. =?> your fault?
laurelrusswurm likes this. -
@jargon b/c she is not doing anything wrong! She just has bad taste in clothing and maybe bad judgement. But if she doesn't consend to ..
-
@jargon no, I'm speaking of the rapists, whatever their gender and the gender of their victims
-
@jargon I'm actually more interested in the ethics of the situation than in law
-
@jargon wrong: she's no breaking the law or hurting anybody. She is endangering herself, but that is the fault of would be rapists.
-
@jargon I don't think it makes sense to even consider a victim could be responsible for being overpowered; it's tautologically false
-
@jargon same as before; if they can't control impulses while drunk, should avoid drinking
-
@jargon now, drunken consent is a trickier matter; somewhat dependent on whether the other party is drunk, or sober and taking advantage
-
@jargon consider this: man robs bank. is the robbing ok if he was drunk? is it, if the guard was asleep?
-
@jargon is it, if a huge pile of cash was fully exposed and he couldn't help the temptation?
-
@jargon the implication seems to be that the woman that goes to a bar have a few drinks wants to be raped. I reject that notion
-
@jargon both are minding their businesses, and they're not at fault if a rapist that attacks either
-
laurelrusswurm likes this.
-
@jargon I can't parse that properly. if one cries rape while both drunk and sober, it was clearly not consensual
-
@jargon is the bank is co-responsible for being robbed, just because a pile of cash was fully exposed?
-
@jargon is the guard co-responsible for the robbery because he fell asleep?
-
@jargon I definitely don't buy this theory of co-responsibility. the perpetrator is fully responsible for their evil acts
-
@jargon I don't agree that a failure to defend oneself makes one culpable of being victimized
-
@jargon I think I've already addressed that; there was consent. if one'd be embarrased by their drunken behavior, don't drink
-
@jargon no, if a woman commits a crime she is responsible. There are women that steal, murder, even beat men etc... .They are then ..
-
@jargon BTW, I'm concerned about the “she” in your question. what about the other party? could be a he or a she, too
-
@jargon say, what if both claim to have been raped by each other while drunk?
-
@jargon the bank robbery is a good analogy: cash/flesh exposed, off-guard victim. drunk has no freedom or right to rob, period
-
@jargon that the victim could have tried harder to defend oneself, and failed to do so, doesn't make the robbery their fault
-
@jargon IMHO it does no good to blame people for being overpowered, fooled, or otherwise abused. no fault in expecting honesty and respect
-
@sjargon @lxoliva but that would cost them a fine or maybe a day in a cell. They're not free for anyone to abuse.
-
@jargon but that would cost them a fine or maybe a day in a cell. They're not free for anyone to abuse.
-
-
@jargon whoever paid for the drinks? :-) seriously, I don't think there is a rapist here, because IMHO this isn't rape
-
@jargon if both feel raped, probably both are victims of their own impulses, and of their own decisions to set them loose with alcohol
-
@jargon one can't disclaim responsibility for an accident caused by driving after drinking; IMHO same goes for consent for sex, but...
-
@jargon ... predators are more likely to lure victims to drink for sex than for driving, so potential victims need to be more alert
-
@jargon but is that enforced? I recall a TV show that mentioned odd unenforced laws around the world
-
@jargon like, IIRC there's a law against oral sex somewhere in the US. I've always wondered how that would be enforced
-
@joshix Plus people can see your crotch then, even if you're invisible.
joshix likes this. -
@reality good morning :3
joshix likes this. -
@coyo Dude, this isn't even the morning - it's the... freaking, *super*-evening.
-
@jargon Yes I *can* know that. Because I understand the difference between fantasy and reality. I also know something about human behavior.
-
@jargon You are treating rape as if somehow different from other crimes. The only person responsible for *any* crime is the criminal.
-
@jargon When a greedy old man imprudently gives his life savings to a con man who promises riches, is he responsible for the crime of theft?
-
@jargon If I stand on a high rooftop it is bad judgement. If the wind blows me off it is an accident I am not responsible for.
-
@jargon If I step off the roof, it is bad judgement AND my responsibility. That would be called suicide.
-
@jargon If you push me off the roof, you commit the crime of murder, for which you are wholly responsible. It is not my fault you murder me.
-
@jargon My bad judgement put me on the roof - in a potential dangerous situation. It does NOT cause the crime of murder.
-
@laurelrusswurm @nj3ma there is nothing wrong with consensual violence.
-
@jargon Women have the right to dress as they like. How women dress has nothing to do with being raped.
-
@sandersch Consensual violence is *not* rape. Rape is NONCONSENSUAL violence.
-
@jargon You seem to want to assign all the blame to the victim, and none to the rapist.
-
@laurelrusswurm that's true, but I didn't say that. rape != consensual
-
@jargon Adult women are not children. They have the right NOT to be attacked because a rapist is "tempted."
-
@sandersch No, but that seems to be part of what @jargon is arguing. http://identi.ca/notice/75860851
-
@jargon If a woman wears a diamond, is it her fault someone hits her over the head and steals it? No. It is the responsibility of the THIEF.
-
@laurelrusswurm well he is entitled to his wrong opinion ;-)
-
@jargon That's not your implication, that's your argument. Women CAN go to bars dressed how they like as long as they are not breaking laws
-
@jargon Even if a woman went into a bar naked, it does not excuse Rape.
-
@jargon "two drunk - consensual sex" is not rape; however,"Date rape" occurs when one person says no and the other goes ahead - that's rape.
-
@jargon There is a world of difference between choosing what to wear and choosing to rape someone.
-
@jargon Rape *is* 100% responsibility of the rapist. As murder is 100% responsibility of murderer & theft is 100% responsibility of thief
-
@laurelrusswurm rapists cause rape? shocking!
-
@jargon Men who go out and get drunk in bars and then rape women are rapists.
-
@laurelrusswurm Opinion does indeed not trump law. In my opinion someone who call someone a nigger, needs a beating. That is not legal tho.
-
@laurelrusswurm careful there. think statutory between 2 underage persons.
-
@sandersch I understand and would be inclined to agree if I wasn't a pacifist.
-
@zotz Statutory rape is different because it is used to legally over-rule consent on the assumption that minor children lack competence...
-
@zotz ...in order to protect them from predatory adults. As in your example statutory rape is often employed to enforce parental control...
-
@zotz ... and it certainly seems to me that these statutes should be revisited; regardless consenting underaged couple is diff discussion
-
All Identi.ca content and data are available under the 