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  1. Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn

    @armijn,are you sure those are #OIN's legal LLC members? What percentage of LLC does each of them control? Formal legal paperwok on this?

    Thursday, 18-Aug-11 13:17:52 UTC from web
    • Luis R. Rodriguez Luis R. Rodriguez

      At the #patent session at #linuxcon Should be fun, Eben Moglen is here :D I hate I'm now compelled to attend patent talks though

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 17:31:01 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Luis R. Rodriguez

      @mcgrof, I hope you'll ask #Bergelt if #OIN will extend its #swpats license to cover something other than *ancient* software versions.

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 17:41:06 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Luis R. Rodriguez

      @mcgrof, it would also be good if #Bergelt would address why #OIN is a for-profit company rather than a non-profit, and who really owns OIN.

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 17:41:47 UTC
    • Jeff Spaleta Jeff Spaleta

      @bkuhn yeah..the for-profit status is something I would like to understand. watching a for-profit amass a patent warchest is uncomfortable.

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 17:44:53 UTC
    • Jeff Spaleta Jeff Spaleta

      @bkuhn I can imagine a future OIN that goes out and shakes down non-licensees aggressively as a business model.

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 17:45:54 UTC
    • Luis R. Rodriguez Luis R. Rodriguez

      @bkuhn will do, or try :D what is the ancient software? Mind if I say you are asking?

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 17:49:18 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Luis R. Rodriguez

      @mcgrof, it'd be better if you ask, since I've asked him before & he doesn't answer. Important to #Qualcomm I'd bet, if you're #OIN licensee

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 17:50:29 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Luis R. Rodriguez

      @mcgrof, #OIN problem is: #swpats license covers only this stuff: http://ur1.ca/14gz3 which are all old versions of the relevant software.

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 17:51:59 UTC
    • Luis R. Rodriguez Luis R. Rodriguez

      @bkuhn which ancient software? Can you elaborate?

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 17:54:10 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Luis R. Rodriguez

      @mcgrof, if you look at http://ur1.ca/14gz3 , you'll see the "!Linux system" as #OIN defines it. Versions of everything there are ancient.

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 17:55:39 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Luis R. Rodriguez

      @mcgrof,Currently,as time goes on, #OIN #swpats license becomes less & less useful,since new features are added & are not covered by license

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 17:57:34 UTC
    • Luis R. Rodriguez Luis R. Rodriguez

      @bkuhn wouldn't the answer to that question be that the software in question needs a lot of legal review and this takes money and time ?

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:02:40 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Luis R. Rodriguez

      @mcgrof, he may argue that,but frankly, what good is a #swpats pool if it slowly but surely doesn't cover the key software it's supposed to?

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:03:32 UTC
    • Luis R. Rodriguez Luis R. Rodriguez

      @bkuhn I'll ask the other one about why OIN is a for-profit company as that does seem very puzzling

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:03:43 UTC
    • Luis R. Rodriguez Luis R. Rodriguez

      @bkuhn agreed...

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:04:15 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Luis R. Rodriguez

      @mcgrof, cool. Let us know what he says. #OIN's #Bergelt typically dodges this question when I ask it, so I'd be curious what he tells you.☺

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:05:15 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Richard Fontana

      @fontana,I don't know if #OIN should be 501(c)(3) - probably not. I'd presume 501(c)(6) would make most sense, rather than for-profit LLC.

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:07:07 UTC
    • Luis R. Rodriguez Luis R. Rodriguez

      @bkuhn can a non-profit acquire patents? That's what OIN seems to do

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:07:34 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Luis R. Rodriguez

      @mcgrof,I don't know of any reason NPO's can't acquire #swpats, assuming goal is to license them RF to community (which #OIN claims as goal)

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:08:43 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Richard Fontana

      @fontana, We have to assume that #OIN has primary goal of profit for its LLC members, as a for-profit LLC. It doesn't say who members are!

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:09:37 UTC
    • Luis R. Rodriguez Luis R. Rodriguez

      @bkuhn hm, but they seem to license the patents to only member for-profit companies, no? Wouldn't a non-profit's company goal be for all?

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:10:07 UTC
    • Luis R. Rodriguez Luis R. Rodriguez

      @bkuhn that is, could it be quid pro quo strategy?

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:10:54 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Luis R. Rodriguez

      @mcgrof, Trade associations (c(6), like LF) benefit a common business interest of many companies. That would be right setup for #OIN IMO.

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:11:02 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Luis R. Rodriguez

      @mcgrof, part of #OIN's pitch, though, is to offer licenses to non-profits as well. In fact, they hire people to aggressively market that.

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:11:33 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Richard Fontana , Luis R. Rodriguez

      @mcgrof @fontana, Anyway, we can argue re: "right" setup for #OIN. But point is: they are extremely opaque & should be called out for it.

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:12:35 UTC
    • Luis R. Rodriguez Luis R. Rodriguez

      @bkuhn wouldn't that be a smart strategy? To obscure to the attackers who *is* protected?

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:12:39 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Luis R. Rodriguez

      @mcgrof, actually, I disagree on that: Better to know who is defended. Regardless, question is: who decides #OIN policy? Give #transparency

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:13:30 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Richard Fontana

      @fontana,IRS places real & actual requirements on various tax statuses, so it's not merely symbolic. Anyway: the main point is #transparency

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:15:10 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Luis R. Rodriguez

      @mcgrof, to be clear: my main issue is: What is the governance structure of #OIN? This is well-hidden and questions are always avoided.

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:16:58 UTC
    • Luis R. Rodriguez Luis R. Rodriguez

      @bkuhn got it -- I agree, but could this not be informaiton which can help the attacker ?

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:20:00 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Luis R. Rodriguez

      @mcgrof, help them go after people without an #OIN license, sure, which would encourage others to join the pool (presumably a good thing).

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:20:31 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Luis R. Rodriguez

      @mcgrof, anyway, all would become public quickly. As soon as attacker send a C&D, the defense would be "we have an #OIN license".

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:20:53 UTC
    • Luis R. Rodriguez Luis R. Rodriguez

      @bkuhn oh man, well the session ended and they said no questions can be asked hehe... #priceless

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:21:41 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn IBM Group , Luis R. Rodriguez

      @mcgrof,I'm not completely surprised. Given the hard time I gave #Bergelt about !IBM's attacks on #TurboHercules last time he took questions

      Wednesday, 17-Aug-11 18:23:00 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn

      @armijn,I have,of course. What point are you trying to make? My guess'd be you've not grokked "Successor Release" defn & its limitations.

      Thursday, 18-Aug-11 00:10:02 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn

      @armijn, if you are going to so accuse, offer some proof. Can you tell me how new features in newer versions of "Linux System" are covered?

      Thursday, 18-Aug-11 00:12:15 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn Richard Fontana

      @fontana, & I think you haven't read carefully what is required to get & maintain these tax exempt statuses. Have you ever filed a 990?

      Thursday, 18-Aug-11 00:15:13 UTC
    • Bradley M. Kuhn Bradley M. Kuhn

      @armijn,I've sought for years expansive reading there; lawyers say it doesn't exist. If you've got a diff legal opinion on it,please publish

      Thursday, 18-Aug-11 13:16:16 UTC

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