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@lstench There are some details on the RHCE here: http://www.redhat.com/training/courses/ex300/examobjective
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@gomerx What previous education is required? Can one do this straight out of high school or is college needed?
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I didn't have any previous education, just 10 years of experience. I took a Red Hat training course, and there are books available to study
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@gomerx experience in what? Sys. admin? Can someone without experience get the cert.?
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Linux server experience. You'd have a hard time passing without experience and study. It's a very fast paced test. There's no time to think
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I've known people to pass just from studying one of the exam guides. I found the Red Hat course valuable, but it's expensive.
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@gomerx I see I was wondering if study would be enough by itself…… How does a teenager gain that kind of experience.
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I had no on the job experience when I got my RHCSA. I just learned by running my own servers, running web sites, E-mail and stuff like that.
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@lstench it's pretty tough going AFIK even for someone doing a full time course, let alone self study
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@thistleweb @gomerx I am afraid of that. I am trying to find the tools to help him. He is barely a preteen now but has had his mind made up
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@thistleweb @gomerx for quite a while I would like to guide him in the right direction. What does he need to run his own servers?
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@lstench it's a hardcore course, I've used Linux for ages now, I know a fair bit, but I doubt I'd pass any aptitude test w/o serious study
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Just a computer, internet connection and the desire to learn. I'd start with setting up a web server and go from there.
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You might look at the LPI exam as well. http://www.lpi.org/exam-preparation They can point you to free training material.
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@thistleweb He he becomes old enough we are willing to pay for the courses or anything else required. I want to take advantage of him being
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@gomerx I took their diagnostic exam and did pretty well. VERY well for a self-taught music history professor. :)
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@lstench perhaps a good idea would be to get him used to CentOS on a daily basis, ideally through the terminal, learning where files are
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@thistleweb homeschooled by giving him the tools he needs to achieve what he wants.Why wait he has to freedom to start now.
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@lstench centos is basically RHEL with all the branding removed, it's about as close as yer gonna get to RHEL w/o being RHEL
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@thistleweb Hmm I know a little about Centos, more about Fedora not by much though. Maybe I will learn with him.
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You could get him on Identi.ca so he can start asking questions. Plenty of us would love to help. Or a LUG might have some mentors
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I thought their assessment was pretty good. I just had to learn obscure stuff like file acls and quotas and such.
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You should follow his advices, i'm using fedora/centos for years now and not afraid of doing a RH cert without the official trainee.
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@thistleweb I am thinking of a sub 500$ laptop and helping him install Centos. Does he need a dual boot of fedora?
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@gomerx We don't have any LUG out this way, but we are moving out of state soon so we will have access to a big city again.
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@gomerx yeah it was good. Here are my results: http://pastebin.com/L7mEEXzC a bit of work & I could probably pass RHCSA.
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@morphix I plan on it.
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@gomerx Forgot about identica. LOL!!
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@lstench my guess is that a single OS (Fedora) would be fine with a CentOS VM, but leave maybe 15gb free in case he needs a native dual boo
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@thistleweb @lstench the RH exams also require some working knowledge of Vi/Vim, good to learn the basics at least.
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@lstench CentOS is kinda aimed at workstations & servers rather than desktops, he may find it inadequate for day-to-day stuff
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@jonkulp wonder if they have a religious exemption to that for "member of the church of emacs" :)
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@thistleweb so fedora with vm. Which vm? Vitualbox or vmware?
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Yes, you could do it. The hard part is time management because you have so little time. It just takes a little practice, though.
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@tekk hehehe maybe so, but I don't remember a single question on the diagnostic about emacs. There were a few about vi.
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@lstench let him explore, just saying there may be stuff where only a native install works, hence the space to dual boot
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@jonkulp not the dread vi.. LOL!! Looks like I am going to be doing some studying too.
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@lstench it's stuff like "what happens if you type 'vi +3 foobar.conf A;' or something like that.
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@gomerx it'd be cool to do, but probably not necessary. Was researching it when budget probs put my Univ. job in jeopardy. All good for now.
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@gomerx am I suppose to be looking practice and self study materials?
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Those would probably help. Amazon has RHCE exam prep guides in the $30-40 range, but that's probably for farther down the road.
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@thistleweb @lstench & do as much as possible at CLI, for everything. :)
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@thistleweb The goal being letting him get comfortable even if something breaks it's ok, the worse thing being he may need to reinstall.
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@jonkulp well that'd be because you're forced to have vi as part of the unix spec, emacs is a purely voluntary experience
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I think the test is down in the $400 range now, which is half what I paid. Still that's a lot of money if you don't need to spend it.
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@thistleweb @lstench yes I used Fedora for about a year on my laptop and that definitely helped in the diagnostic test.
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You can get by without knowing vi/vim, but most people use it because it's faster.
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@lstench Linc from TLLTS did his RHCE, it may be worth getting his feedback & suggestions
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@gomerx if I ever decide to change careers I may do certification. I asked our top sysadmin tho & he said experience trumps cert for him.
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@jonkulp when you say that what exactly do you mean?
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@lstench I just mean for every task you have to do on your machine (package management, config, networking) learn CLI ways to do it.
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@gomerx vim? Faster? You're confusing it with nvi or a real vi...
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I mean faster at getting things done (as compared to gedit, etc), not execution speed. If you want install nvi during the exam, you can.
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@lstench fun way to learn: build centos CLI server w/LAMP stack, set up private statusnet, learn admin/config, logging, cron jobs. Fun!
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@lstench I use crunchbang now on everything, except my webserver which is straight CLI debian.
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@jonkulp Do you still use it?
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@gomerx but it is good to know he is young if he starts now it will be second nature.
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@jonkulp Ahh like I had to do to learn to get around in Slack.
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@lstench yeah. Once you're comfy with that you can do all kinds of admin/maintenance remotely via ssh. It's great. :)
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@jonkulp ahh..like I had to learn to get around in Slack.
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I'm starting to think Debian is a good choice for web servers. It's easier to upgrade when the web devs want the latest shiny stuff.
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@jonkulp crunchbang is nice.
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@gomerx Ah, but then there's another dimension relevant to sysadmin duties. There are times when the vi family fails and emacs doesn't.
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@lstench it's my favorite now. My kids both run it on their laptops too. :)
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@jonkulp I love that kind of stuff sort of slacked off this past 6mos do to my son getting worse,but I hope to back in the saddle again soon
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@lstench aren't you homeschooling your kids too? You could set up your own Moodle instance and use it for school. I set one up for testing.
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Lately I've been working on Ubuntu machines over SSH that only have nano installed. :(
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@jonkulp really with openbox with the child.
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@lstench yes. They do fine with it, just have to show them a few of the keybindings.
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@jonkulp yes always have homeschooled. Is there a good guide to do that.
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@gomerx Ubuntu is (some foreign language) for P.O.S.
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We've got a bunch of kiosks running it. Unity has given me a few headaches. We may switch to some other distro eventually.
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@gomerx (That said, I think nano behaves like emacs in the dimension I mean.)
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@lstench downloads & documentation at moodle.org. Not trivial but not too hard if you have some basic server admin experience.
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@jonkulp They are young still aren't they?
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@lstench 7 and 10. Easier to teach 'em #! b/c they're not used to anything else.
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@lstench basically they just need the web browser and sometimes a word processor.
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@jonkulp Exactly my kids have used Linux from day one. So it is what they know.
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@jonkulp Same here.
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@lstench and I installed a wordpress site for my son on the webserver so he's learning how to create posts, upload media, etc. He likes it.
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@jonkulp Funny my kids have blogs at blogger. But my sons got shut down by google due to his age so I may just have to do the same as you.
teradyne likes this. -
@jonkulp Wait you don't pay for hosting? You host your own?
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@lstench domestic ISP deals usualyl block server stuff, both port blocking & in the T&C ya may have to be sneaky to run yer own server
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@lstench domestic ISP deals are about lots of download, little upload.......servers need the opposite, as well as a static IP address
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@thistleweb yeah I don't think I want to go there esp. since I already pay for web hosting.
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@lstench right. I bought an old PC from Goodwill for $7.99 and it's now my webserver. I host my main website, a statusnet site, moodle, etc.
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@lstench even if I had the bandwidth & an ISP turning a blind eye, I'd use proper web hosting too, means someone else keeping it secure
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@jonkulp see now for some reason I am not sure I could do that.
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@lstench wasn't sure I could either but I've found it really fun to do. I'm learning a lot too. :)
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@jonkulp so you self taught yourself? Was it hard?
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@lstench yes, totally self-taught. Some parts are hard. I just googled and read about each problem as it presented itself.
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I’m self taught as well. The Linux community is built on teaching each other. Most of the forums are great for learning.
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Also, the Arch wiki is a wealth of knowledge, no matter what distro you are on. ;)
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@jpope which makes the ubuntu forums despicable. it was a huge resource when I was learning, but now you need an account to look at threads.
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@jpope the Arch Wiki is one of the finest collectively-produced documents in the history of the world.
speeddefrost likes this. -
Wait, wait, you need an account just to read now?
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Yeah, I noticed that the other day when I attempted to look at a thread. Hadn’t logged in those forums in at least a year. :/
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Hm, doesn’t seem a problem to me. Try this one: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1712247
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Maybe the one I hit the other day was in the archives…
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@psquid odd, perhaps it's just that you need it for archived threads.
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@jpope Love the arch wiki. Love it.
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No but, it probably helps with those unfamiliar with Linux (noobs I guess we could say) to find more relevant information.
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Yep, we’ve got the !feds group just for that. :)
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@jpope You need your own server to do that?
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@jonkulp so you have set up your own learning group? Cool.
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“It fully hits all parts of the LAMP stack.” Yeah, hits them like a ton of bricks. :D
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No need for a static IP, that’s what services like dyndns.org are for. ;)
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You don’t have too have your own server, it just makes it easier. I do have matrix.jpope.org sitting on an amazon EC2 currently and it …
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... runs quite well. I can ssh into it to do anything I need too as well. Still, it’s not quite like having total control over the server.
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@jpope didn't know that better peek my head in, I might just learn something ;)
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I host my own as well. I use dyn.com to handle my dynamic IP here at home so that my site is always accessible, even if my IP changes.
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@jpope have people tried to attack your web server before? :D
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@lstench active tonight huh :-)
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@jpope I hear so much about Amazon EC2 but don't really understand it.
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@sunzofman1 yes sir.
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It's just a way of renting server time and resources. Different from traditional hosting because you just pay for what you use.
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Basically it’s a VPS that you can run. I wouldn’t suggest it to start off with but, it’s a good learning experience as well.
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And as @gomerx said, you only pay for what you use. Last month, I went over the free tier usage in a few aspects yet, my bill was less …
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.. less than $20 for the month. Mostly, that was due to having two instances running all month.
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You could be right, I just haven’t visited it nearly as much as the Arch wiki in my Linux lifetime. ;)
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A little but not really. I get quite a bit of spam comment attempts on my blog and the search bots hit it every couple of seconds.
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I occasionally do find attempts by people looking for a way in but, haven’t had any massive attempts, yet. ;)
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@jpope ah, I once had someone tried to shellcode my server, heh. ;)
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@gomerx the pay what you use model wish more people used it.
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@jpope what is the norm cost with no over usage issues?
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