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Yes, Steam and Source Engine Coming to !Linux ~ Ubuntu Vibes http://goo.gl/CcjYE
about a year ago from web- Ondřej Michálek and Bruce Cowan like this.
- Vasco Nunes and Gustavo Brondani Schenkel repeated this.
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@silner I believe it when I see it
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I might not even believe it when I see it. I just hope I don't have to pay for Portal again just to get the the GNU/Linux version.
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@silner Probably not.
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@paradiesstaub Although, I suppose Desura may have kickstarted the Steamboat a bit :)
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Jason F. McBrayer likes this.
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I've never seen how free software *doesn't* apply to games.
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Software is software. DRM is like shit on any software. And I don't personally believe in closed-source any longer, as well.
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If Steam is being used for the distribution and update, we don't need this either: apt, yum, pacman, etc..
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@cwebber I'm really thinking in the sense that games are never necessary, so we're not deprived of rights. There are always alternatives?
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@dno That's a good point, but only AGPL would enforce that kind of openness and I suspect that won't take off. I'd like it too but…
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@dno I suspect DRM will come to Linux unless we fight it more directly. The real objection being loss to posterity
laurelrusswurm likes this. -
@dno I agree it isn't part of the FOSS world, but I'm wondering if we have to accept Linux is wider than FOSS?
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@silner games are speech...
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@robmyers I agree, but isn't the Free speech right already satisfied as long as anyone can use any licence?
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It's not about enforcement. In 100 years, there will be games based on engines id Software open-sourced. And Nethack. The rest? gone
laurelrusswurm likes this. -
@robmyers It may be I lack understanding of the games area because (aside from Chess) I don't really play
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Games are culture, and do you want to bind our shared culture to proprietary software? (Mario as predominant shared experience of 80s-90s)
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I've never bought the "games aren't necessary" argument. They're necessary to a lot of people, & a cause of plenty of people not using FOSS.
laurelrusswurm likes this. -
Also, where games go, technology follows. You can generally predict the direction of tech generally by where games are going
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@cwebber they are not tools, but they are speech. FSF former, EFF latter...
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Plenty of our most serious problems in FOSS driven by game industry: DRM practically started around games in 80s… nonfree graphics drivers…
Jason F. McBrayer likes this. -
Continue to ignore that stuff at your own peril, FOSS world!
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@cwebber with !copyright as long as it is, that chunk of culture won't be in the !publicdomain 'til after those whose culture it is are dead
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I don't buy that games aren't tools! I learned to program by extending Graal Online back in the day and adding new enemies and etc.
Rob Myers likes this. -
I agree that that argument in particular is a bit flaky, maybe a bit bound to certain kinds of games. :)
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Yes that's a problem also. But I think also FOSS activists should be concerned that proprietary games "glue" users to nonfree platforms.
Rob Myers likes this. -
*gasp*… games are⇒culture⇐♺ @silner I'm really thinking in the sense that games are never necessary, so we're not deprived of rights.
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@cwebber agreed. My Dad overcame computer nervousness so he could play Mahjong... now he read news online & loves his email
Christopher Allan Webber likes this. -
@silner Play is part of learning. As cats play "pounce" games so they are ready for mice, humans play computer games to learn computers.
Rob Myers and Christopher Allan Webber like this. -
@cwebber laurelrusswurm OK that's a fair point and I'm sure the gamers in the family would agree :)
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@laurelrusswurm It's interesting, when I use the word play, I see a right straight away, but game I have to think about :)
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@laurelrusswurm cats learn "pounce" so they can jump out the way of a scary vacuum cleaner nearby too :D
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@laurelrusswurm or an RC car driven by one of the inconsiderate two legged inhabitants of the house seeking a #YouTube hit
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@cwebber I have to admit though, I'm suspicious whether collaboration can work for game companies. I can't clearly see the cooperative need?
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@jasonriedy Yet, opening the source code after sales die down would still achieve those goals, but still fall short of a real FOSS model?
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I'll have an announcement very relevant to that on monday. Check back then ;)
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I wouldn't do that with my own things, but I have no objection to delayed.
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@dno I think that's the closest we'll ever get, because my observation is: gamers actually relish that element of surprise, on release day
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@cwebber, I find your argument that proprietary video firmware as a software freedom problem being caused by proprietar games fascinating.
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@bkuhn Thanks… I feel strongly this is true in several ways, should blog it. At minimum proprietary games & driver worlds joined at hip
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@cwebber True. Annoyance at such "glue" made me a free software person… best description I've heard is "ransome-ware" (via Raoul Suaraez)
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@silner One of the best things I learned from my Dad (a musician) is that playing is a legitimate pursuit for grown-ups :)
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@thistleweb nooo... that's not "pounce" that's "run-away" http://www.ur1.ca/8y8ud
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@thistleweb "pounce" = "attack" (enables dinner... I won't get graphic because this is a family rated venue)
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@laurelrusswurm I know lol
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@cwebber I think you should blog it. I didn't agree or disagree with it because I didn't really follow it; more explanation needed :)
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@cwebber Actually I kind of followed it, but I'd defintely appreciate more explanation
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@cwebber many games have stories now, after you play through that, where's the replay value? if the development is open, there's no suspense
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@cwebber by the time it's even close to release, folks who are interested know the plot, endings etc and have no reason to play it
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@cwebber not all games have stories obviously but those that do, the story parts at least need kept under wraps
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@cwebber the code to let the player play the story also needs to be kept under wraps for the same reasons, secret characters etc
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@cwebber this story / spoiler angle is a large part of why FOSS can be problematic to any creative product like a movie, TV show etc
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@cwebber, Next time I see you, I'd like to chat more. Perhaps your arguments could change my mind about importance of Free Software games.
Christopher Allan Webber likes this. -
Sounds good. Will you be at OSCON this year? Maybe we could talk then.
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Spoiler aspect semi-true, but you can develope a FOSS game like that (see Blender Foundation films for free culture film equiv)
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That and there are games I played and films I watched 10 years after the release that I avoided spoilers on even though endings were "known"
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@cwebber that's fine, but did you watch & help create those plots months & months beforehand? no, you got that initial no-spoiler experience
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!OSCON website's back up;They rejected all my talk proposals. I can't travel if I'm not speaking; guess I'll miss my first OSCON since 2005.
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@bkuhn we may need to revive the plan for #DisturbiCon
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I'd go
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@mlinksva has a couple of dense pages of notes for plans we made for #disturbicon
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@cwebber I find this...
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#DisturbiCon'd be great, but it's really a lot of work to plan a conference. OTOH, I'd love to see fewer for-profit conferences like !OSCON.
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@bkuhn I especially feel good since all 3 of your talks were rejected. Else I'd feel guilty re submitting only 1.
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@cwebber @bkuhn I suppose #DisturbiCon should be held in high #bedbugs report venue for maximum #disturbance
Christopher Allan Webber likes this. -
@fontana @cwebber @bkuhn we can't be surprised about a big, permissive, #HeeHaw crowd party. Can #DisturbiCon make an alternative stmt?
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I thought OS Bridge was the anti-OSCON option?
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@tmarble this raises the incidental question, is free java the same as coffee for all?
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@edd graciously offered to donate sessions-track admission to #Conservancy for me to attend !OSCON. If I can find a place to sleep, I'll go!
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@bkuhn data point in favor of existence of anti-GPL-enforcement conspiracy and O'Reilly's membership.
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O'Reilly is well-known for being anti-copyleft; ∄ conspiracy, Tim's said it outright. Strangely,though,he hates proprietary #netservices too
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@thistleweb The no-spoilers thing about games is absurd. I love playing Wesnoth, which is free, but I don't go reading parts of the
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source that have potential spoilers. You don't need to glue together the latter pages of a book until you read the first chapter first.
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@jordigh that's great for folks reading the code, but to play it, it has to exist, which means someone created the spoilers for you to njoy
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Point is, if you don't need to DRM books in order to hide spoilers, why do you need to DRM games? Spoilers are dumbest reason for DRM.
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@jordigh if you're making the game, you need to colaberate on ideas of story, spoliers etc, to then work on the game / visual implementation
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@jordigh you can't possibly do that without spoilers, same goes for testing those parts
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@jordigh who mentioned spoilers as a reason for DRM? my point is that a FOSS model needs to keep spoilers under wraps for it to work
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@jordigh books are usually written by one person, sold as a single complete item, where the readers imagination is fueled by the words
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@jordigh books are not a collaberation / discussion where all sorts of plot developments are discussed during it's creation
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@jordigh well, at least not out in the open, which is my point, the spoiler / plot twists etc are all done in-house to ensure it's surprise
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@jordigh a book is also just words, a game has to have LOADS of work done to turn words into a piece of code that's playable, or video
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@jordigh I think you've confused DRM with the FOSS development model
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@jordigh sigh, have fun
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@jordigh if you wanted to troll someone, why not just say so
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O'Reilly's well-known? Maybe to we who remember those books as we do LPs. "A personality that no longer matters" as @bruceperens might say.
X11R5 likes this. -
@freemjd, who does @bruceperens say that about? Tim O'Reilly is a VC these days, AFAICT. That matters in the hacker news crowd, I presume :)
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@bkuhn It's a quote from a panel discussion @rms & @bruceperens did a few years ago. http://ur1.ca/92hlv
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@bkuhn @bruceperens didn't specify to whom he was referring. There was some speculation of course: http://ur1.ca/92hn7
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