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@1111aether today are the steps we need to go through to become simply the "1st person to..." instead of "1st woman to" or "1st black to.."
about 9 months ago from heybuddy-
@amon0thoth1 your link is broken
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@amon0thoth1 I think it's fabulous that #KDE is honouring contributor Claire Lotion, but I'm not sure what her gender has to do with it
Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) likes this. -
@laurelrusswurm Thanks. This is the right url http://bit.ly/N4kFxL
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In memory of Claire Lotion, an enthusiastic KDE woman contributor, !KDE 4.9 has been released http://bit.ly/N4kFxL
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Thanks, that's a lovely tribute to Claire Lotion. http://bit.ly/N4kFxL #KDE
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@laurelrusswurm Not really important the contributor gender. Many women still thinking we're a men community where women are not welcome..
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@laurelrusswurm ... And I would like to show the wide !KDE contributors diversity. And invite more people to do it too
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@amon0thoth1 I understand, but think stressing her gender over her accomplishments doesn't do her justice, nor invite female contributors
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@amon0thoth1 Making an issue of it sends the message that community where women are separate
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@laurelrusswurm Maybe you are right. And I didn't want to do that. On contrary, women have been contributing great since the early beginning
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@laurelrusswurm Wow! Someone who gets it! I'm always telling other US blacks that it is time to stop counting "the first black ..."
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Now downloading !openSUSE 12.2 RC 2 for a full installation
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@1111aether I don't thinks so, I think its mostly just not thought out; "popular wisdom" is accepted thoughtlessly
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@laurelrusswurm That point never occurred to me when I first saw that post but I agree. No need to emphasise gender beyond her first name.
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@1111aether I've no idea who you are talking about; yes sexism exists and yes, sexism exists in the media but I doubt that's the intent here
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@1111aether Conversations (context) seem to be broken just now, but this dent sums up intent of this one http://identi.ca/notice/95835393
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@1111aether sorry you've had a rotten week, mine hasn't been great either
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@1111aether is there a link? My access to "news" is via (a)word-of-mouth (b)Internet (aka Identica et al)
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@1111aether last I tried, ur1.ca is down (someone said @evan is migrating it to a new server so it's temporary)
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@1111aether me too... you too :)
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@1111aether just starting to read it (not too familiar with reddit ... couple times I used it was told I commented too fast and was frozen)
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@1111aether yes, Claire Lotion sounds like an important free software person
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@1111aether its one of the places where the order of the conversation changes by voting, right?
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@1111aether Interesting. I don't think of myself as a feminist, either, but i think all humans ought to have equal rights
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@1111aether Software freedom ought to be able to co-exist with other freedoms, like the freedom of adults to make their own decisions
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@1111aether I'd be happier if people stopped labelling other people and worse, telling them how to behave. Name calling irks me too :)
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@1111aether of course I quit the !identica Linux group over a neckbeard controvery, so what do I know.
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@1111aether I've seen what Stephen Levy described in hackers: kids with geek-cred treated repectfully... so why are women treared worse?
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@1111aether best pair of reddit comments: "Didn't even know Open Source had anything to do with gender." !q http://is.gd/HcgF3k and ...
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... and "why are girls being treated second class at these conferences?" !q http://is.gd/HcgF3k
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@1111aether when I was younger I did, too, but then the word got capitalized and a whole lot rules I didn't necessarily agree with sprang up
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@1111aether I don't think it works that way; priviledge should not accrue to either gender, rights should be for all
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I found the exerpts quoted from the Open Source Male Privilege Checklist interesting http://is.gd/foxLir
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@1111aether women can be sexists, we are all subject to our own chauvenisms If she is sexist, it doesn't excuse treating her badly
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@1111aether I'm not saying gender privilege should be accepted, but countering it with other privilege just escalates it
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@1111aether Having never heard of her before, I have now watched both linked nixie pixel videos, and saw nothing wrong with them.
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@1111aether Let me know if I'm wrong (which happens frequently) I think "slutshame" is when women are belittled for how they dress #slutwalk
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exactly. equality is desired. not "you get this but I get that" I don't want to see any side in these types of argument…
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@1111aether I've no idea what a "suicide girl" is
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@1111aether society is a patriarchal power structure; not sure why women choosing this path is seen as exploutation rather than empowerment
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@1111aether Being sexual is not the same as being sexist. What I've seen her do is no different than "reporters" on PrimeTime shows like ET
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@1111aether people who go into the public eye on-camera media need to appeal in some way; otherwise no one watches your show or podcast
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@1111aether building enough of a following to make a living at it is hard work, especially as an indie. People said the same about Madonna
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@1111aether interesting, so you don't have a problem with someone being a pin-up girl, but it's not ok if they're in FOSS?
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@1111aether Seems to me she's in advertising, and she's chosen to sell FOSS instead of cars. I don't understnad that that's a bad thing.
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@1111aether Just because Jesse Brown is a good looking guy doesn't mean what he says is bad/wrong/sexist http://searchengine.tvo.org/blog
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@1111aether I don't think all women were oppressed because Marilyn Monroe became a sex symbol, i think Marilyn paid the price big time
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@1111aether I try to start from the premise that everyone is generally doing the best they can. Getting into the public eye isn't easy...
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@1111aether True, there shouldn't be. What you should realize is that this young woman is bubblegum at the moment; not the face of FOSS
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@1111aether In a perfect world we would be seen only for what we do, but we all have our baggage (I like to hear of other women's successes)
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@1111aether and this seems kind of like a "careful what you wish for" situation.
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@1111aether men are judged on appearance, demeanor and apparel as well. Hubby has commented on much better treatment when he's in a suit
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@1111aether But clearly she is *not* getting passes all the way.
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@1111aether I'm not sure if this is to me... i'm confused if it is
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@1111aether Consider, also, that her decision to promote herself in this manner was probably prompted by her own life experience.
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@1111aether Who is "L.poettering" ?
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@1111aether she's easier to listen to than he is; she's performing, he's a talking head who's video is mumbling in the background :)
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@1111aether SABDFL?
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@1111aether That's the thing... it shouldn't be hypocrisy ... have fun :D
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@1111aether When i was 13 I thought Marilyn brilliant in"Some Like It Hot"…when older I pitied her, now old enough to know she was brilliant
parlementum likes this. -
@laurelrusswurm Self Appointed Benevolent Dictator For Life
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@1111aether my thinking is women can be anything we want to be; some might want to cure cancer, others might wanna be porn stars; all OK
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@tekk you think I'm bossy, huh? :D
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@laurelrusswurm but at least you were brave enough to just decide it was your job instead of waiting for someone to give it to you :)
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@tekk *sigh*
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@laurelrusswurm hmm?
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@tekk Hmph.
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How more traditional than being expected to cover all the costs of dating?
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@1111aether reinforces schmorces. Any person is free to present themselves any way they wish. full. stop. You're accusi…
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@1111aether I'm not buyin' what she's sellin', but I'm not going to say that people shouldn't be allowed to sell (thems…
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@1111aether I'm about to go out, so lack time to discuss just now, but what do you mean by "sexualised environments in FOSS" exactly
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@1111aether if we're still talking about Ms. Pixel, we were actually discussing consumer podcasts about FOSS
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@1111aether I really don't see that, having lived my life in blithe ignorance of nixie pixel until now and had no trouble become a FLOSS fan
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@1111aether in our patriarchal society women have traditionally been poured into skimpy garb and draped over automobiles ...
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@1111aether ... my chief problem with this is that women were coerced ∴ exploited; note: this type of advertising no longer done because...
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@1111aether ... in today's world, women are key in car purchase decisions, so sexist women-as-meat adverts *don't* sell
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@laurelrusswurm it's certainly still being done. you definitely don't get the superbowl up there :/
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@laurelrusswurm not sure, although there's plenty of the "men as meat" adverts aimed at women where they didn't exist in the past
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@tekk @thistleweb I'm not saying its not done, but now only in a limited way; they try a variety of approaches for different markets...
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@tekk @thistleweb but it used to be that was the *only* way (I remember the shock when Ricardo "corinthian leather"Montalban was introduced)
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@laurelrusswurm I agree, it is different, more even, & more chance of a backlash from female (lost) customers & shareholders
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@laurelrusswurm plenty of women see the reverse as perfectly valid after centuries of being on the other foot, that's not equality either
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@1111aether ...except to a limited market (presumably the same lads who will buy the android companions ms. pixel mentioned in that video)
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@laurelrusswurm I definitely agree that I've been spared most of that awfulness because of my age, very glad for it.
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@1111aether Instead of being exploited by males, she seems to have chosen to "exploit" herself, for her own profit. ...
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@1111aether The problem is that tho she gets limited coverage & generate limited notoriety it won't result in anyone taking her seriously.
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@1111aether Which seems to be the point of the hullaballoo. By presenting herself as "meat" her audience will not accept her as herself
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@1111aether I don't get this "embedded in FOSS" concept. She is simply a "personality" who is trying to sell herself selling FOSS
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@1111aether I don't think for a minute that this reflects on women in FOSS, or FLOSS, or women who use FLOSS.
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@1111aether we all get to decide what is acceptable to us. It's only when we don't have a say (can't walk away) that it is an issue.
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@1111aether Ms. Pixel is trying it on, and you don't have to like what she does, nor does any woman. You don't have to watch or support her
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@1111aether ... and in fact I think making free-libre software about gender or stereotype, whether neckbeard or breasts is bad for it.
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@1111aether And tho I am not a woman in FLOSS, I feel perfectly entitled to having, voicing and discussing opinions, because they matter.
Satipera likes this. -
@tekk Unfortunately as the neo-right seems to be in the ascendent (b/c it serves our corporate overklords) a lot of crap is creeping back
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@thistleweb Agreed. The thing to remember is that, after centuries of being on the other foot, they may try it on then learn it's pointless
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@Larelrusswurm That on the front or back foot. Few reads our dents, your novels are another matter should you include the phrase :)
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