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@1111aether today are the steps we need to go through to become simply the "1st person to..." instead of "1st woman to" or "1st black to.."
about 10 months ago from heybuddy-
@amon0thoth1 your link is broken
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@amon0thoth1 I think it's fabulous that #KDE is honouring contributor Claire Lotion, but I'm not sure what her gender has to do with it
Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) likes this. -
@laurelrusswurm Thanks. This is the right url http://bit.ly/N4kFxL
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In memory of Claire Lotion, an enthusiastic KDE woman contributor, !KDE 4.9 has been released http://bit.ly/N4kFxL
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Thanks, that's a lovely tribute to Claire Lotion. http://bit.ly/N4kFxL #KDE
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@laurelrusswurm Not really important the contributor gender. Many women still thinking we're a men community where women are not welcome..
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@laurelrusswurm ... And I would like to show the wide !KDE contributors diversity. And invite more people to do it too
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@amon0thoth1 I understand, but think stressing her gender over her accomplishments doesn't do her justice, nor invite female contributors
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@amon0thoth1 Making an issue of it sends the message that community where women are separate
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@laurelrusswurm Maybe you are right. And I didn't want to do that. On contrary, women have been contributing great since the early beginning
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@laurelrusswurm Wow! Someone who gets it! I'm always telling other US blacks that it is time to stop counting "the first black ..."
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Now downloading !openSUSE 12.2 RC 2 for a full installation
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@1111aether I don't thinks so, I think its mostly just not thought out; "popular wisdom" is accepted thoughtlessly
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@laurelrusswurm That point never occurred to me when I first saw that post but I agree. No need to emphasise gender beyond her first name.
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@1111aether I've no idea who you are talking about; yes sexism exists and yes, sexism exists in the media but I doubt that's the intent here
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@1111aether Conversations (context) seem to be broken just now, but this dent sums up intent of this one http://identi.ca/notice/95835393
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@1111aether sorry you've had a rotten week, mine hasn't been great either
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@1111aether is there a link? My access to "news" is via (a)word-of-mouth (b)Internet (aka Identica et al)
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@1111aether last I tried, ur1.ca is down (someone said @evan is migrating it to a new server so it's temporary)
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@1111aether me too... you too :)
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@1111aether just starting to read it (not too familiar with reddit ... couple times I used it was told I commented too fast and was frozen)
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@1111aether yes, Claire Lotion sounds like an important free software person
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@1111aether its one of the places where the order of the conversation changes by voting, right?
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@1111aether Interesting. I don't think of myself as a feminist, either, but i think all humans ought to have equal rights
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@1111aether Software freedom ought to be able to co-exist with other freedoms, like the freedom of adults to make their own decisions
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@1111aether I'd be happier if people stopped labelling other people and worse, telling them how to behave. Name calling irks me too :)
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@1111aether of course I quit the !identica Linux group over a neckbeard controvery, so what do I know.
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@1111aether I've seen what Stephen Levy described in hackers: kids with geek-cred treated repectfully... so why are women treared worse?
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@1111aether best pair of reddit comments: "Didn't even know Open Source had anything to do with gender." !q http://is.gd/HcgF3k and ...
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... and "why are girls being treated second class at these conferences?" !q http://is.gd/HcgF3k
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@1111aether when I was younger I did, too, but then the word got capitalized and a whole lot rules I didn't necessarily agree with sprang up
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@1111aether I don't think it works that way; priviledge should not accrue to either gender, rights should be for all
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I found the exerpts quoted from the Open Source Male Privilege Checklist interesting http://is.gd/foxLir
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@1111aether women can be sexists, we are all subject to our own chauvenisms If she is sexist, it doesn't excuse treating her badly
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@1111aether I'm not saying gender privilege should be accepted, but countering it with other privilege just escalates it
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@1111aether Having never heard of her before, I have now watched both linked nixie pixel videos, and saw nothing wrong with them.
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@1111aether Let me know if I'm wrong (which happens frequently) I think "slutshame" is when women are belittled for how they dress #slutwalk
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exactly. equality is desired. not "you get this but I get that" I don't want to see any side in these types of argument…
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@1111aether I've no idea what a "suicide girl" is
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@1111aether society is a patriarchal power structure; not sure why women choosing this path is seen as exploutation rather than empowerment
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@1111aether Being sexual is not the same as being sexist. What I've seen her do is no different than "reporters" on PrimeTime shows like ET
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@1111aether people who go into the public eye on-camera media need to appeal in some way; otherwise no one watches your show or podcast
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@1111aether building enough of a following to make a living at it is hard work, especially as an indie. People said the same about Madonna
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@1111aether interesting, so you don't have a problem with someone being a pin-up girl, but it's not ok if they're in FOSS?
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@1111aether Seems to me she's in advertising, and she's chosen to sell FOSS instead of cars. I don't understnad that that's a bad thing.
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@1111aether Just because Jesse Brown is a good looking guy doesn't mean what he says is bad/wrong/sexist http://searchengine.tvo.org/blog
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@1111aether I don't think all women were oppressed because Marilyn Monroe became a sex symbol, i think Marilyn paid the price big time
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@1111aether I try to start from the premise that everyone is generally doing the best they can. Getting into the public eye isn't easy...
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@1111aether True, there shouldn't be. What you should realize is that this young woman is bubblegum at the moment; not the face of FOSS
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@1111aether In a perfect world we would be seen only for what we do, but we all have our baggage (I like to hear of other women's successes)
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@1111aether and this seems kind of like a "careful what you wish for" situation.
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@1111aether men are judged on appearance, demeanor and apparel as well. Hubby has commented on much better treatment when he's in a suit
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@1111aether But clearly she is *not* getting passes all the way.
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@1111aether I'm not sure if this is to me... i'm confused if it is
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@1111aether Consider, also, that her decision to promote herself in this manner was probably prompted by her own life experience.
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@1111aether Who is "L.poettering" ?
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@1111aether she's easier to listen to than he is; she's performing, he's a talking head who's video is mumbling in the background :)
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@1111aether SABDFL?
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@1111aether That's the thing... it shouldn't be hypocrisy ... have fun :D
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@1111aether When i was 13 I thought Marilyn brilliant in"Some Like It Hot"…when older I pitied her, now old enough to know she was brilliant
parlementum likes this. -
@laurelrusswurm Self Appointed Benevolent Dictator For Life
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@1111aether my thinking is women can be anything we want to be; some might want to cure cancer, others might wanna be porn stars; all OK
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@tekk you think I'm bossy, huh? :D
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@laurelrusswurm but at least you were brave enough to just decide it was your job instead of waiting for someone to give it to you :)
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@tekk *sigh*
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@laurelrusswurm hmm?
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@tekk Hmph.
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How more traditional than being expected to cover all the costs of dating?
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@1111aether reinforces schmorces. Any person is free to present themselves any way they wish. full. stop. You're accusi…
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@1111aether I'm not buyin' what she's sellin', but I'm not going to say that people shouldn't be allowed to sell (thems…
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@1111aether I'm about to go out, so lack time to discuss just now, but what do you mean by "sexualised environments in FOSS" exactly
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@1111aether if we're still talking about Ms. Pixel, we were actually discussing consumer podcasts about FOSS
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@1111aether I really don't see that, having lived my life in blithe ignorance of nixie pixel until now and had no trouble become a FLOSS fan
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@1111aether in our patriarchal society women have traditionally been poured into skimpy garb and draped over automobiles ...
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@1111aether ... my chief problem with this is that women were coerced ∴ exploited; note: this type of advertising no longer done because...
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@1111aether ... in today's world, women are key in car purchase decisions, so sexist women-as-meat adverts *don't* sell
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@laurelrusswurm it's certainly still being done. you definitely don't get the superbowl up there :/
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@laurelrusswurm not sure, although there's plenty of the "men as meat" adverts aimed at women where they didn't exist in the past
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@tekk @thistleweb I'm not saying its not done, but now only in a limited way; they try a variety of approaches for different markets...
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@tekk @thistleweb but it used to be that was the *only* way (I remember the shock when Ricardo "corinthian leather"Montalban was introduced)
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@laurelrusswurm I agree, it is different, more even, & more chance of a backlash from female (lost) customers & shareholders
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@laurelrusswurm plenty of women see the reverse as perfectly valid after centuries of being on the other foot, that's not equality either
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@1111aether ...except to a limited market (presumably the same lads who will buy the android companions ms. pixel mentioned in that video)
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@laurelrusswurm I definitely agree that I've been spared most of that awfulness because of my age, very glad for it.
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@1111aether Instead of being exploited by males, she seems to have chosen to "exploit" herself, for her own profit. ...
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@1111aether The problem is that tho she gets limited coverage & generate limited notoriety it won't result in anyone taking her seriously.
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@1111aether Which seems to be the point of the hullaballoo. By presenting herself as "meat" her audience will not accept her as herself
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@1111aether I don't get this "embedded in FOSS" concept. She is simply a "personality" who is trying to sell herself selling FOSS
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@1111aether I don't think for a minute that this reflects on women in FOSS, or FLOSS, or women who use FLOSS.
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@1111aether we all get to decide what is acceptable to us. It's only when we don't have a say (can't walk away) that it is an issue.
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@1111aether Ms. Pixel is trying it on, and you don't have to like what she does, nor does any woman. You don't have to watch or support her
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@1111aether ... and in fact I think making free-libre software about gender or stereotype, whether neckbeard or breasts is bad for it.
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@1111aether And tho I am not a woman in FLOSS, I feel perfectly entitled to having, voicing and discussing opinions, because they matter.
Satipera likes this. -
@tekk Unfortunately as the neo-right seems to be in the ascendent (b/c it serves our corporate overklords) a lot of crap is creeping back
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@thistleweb Agreed. The thing to remember is that, after centuries of being on the other foot, they may try it on then learn it's pointless
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@Larelrusswurm That on the front or back foot. Few reads our dents, your novels are another matter should you include the phrase :)
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