Conversation
Notices
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@lstench you need to check out the #CommonSense podcast by #DanCarlin dancarlin.com
about 9 months ago from heybuddy- vietnam holiday likes this.
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@thistleweb Will do. Can my children be in the room while I listen?
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@lstench he is always family safe language wise, but it's politics, philosophy etc the subject matter will likely be beyond or bore them
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@lstench there's also #HardcoreHistory but that's quite a time sink, also family freindly, maybe worth it to teach history though
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@thistleweb Cool I don't want my kids to listen, want to make sure if they overheard I wouldn't later have to wash their mouths with soap
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@lstench actually, perhaps #HardcoreHistory would be a good way to teach history, if I had him as a teacher, I'd be a historian myself now
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@lstench Would you really?
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@laurelrusswurm Nah (but don't tell'em) when my oldest had a bad case of potty mouth @13yrs old I use to make her take shots of castor oil.
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@laurelrusswurm A week later she was "cured" #notproud but I was at my wits end.
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@thistleweb really. what view of history does he take.
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@lstench at least that's nutritious :)
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@lstench he's very balanced, as neutral as possible, well researched & points out disagreements, best guesses etc
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@lstench he's always thought provoking, and always tries to put you in the heads of the folks he's talking about, in their context, time etc
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@laurelrusswurm well something is 2 of the kids were diagnosed with pre-diabetes today. Waiting for the results of the other test to come in
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@lstench the "death throes of the republic" 6 parter is fantastic, spreading from about 170BC to around 40BC ish
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@lstench With the diagnoses can you work to keep it from going further?
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@lstench the "thors agnels" episode is about the rise of the roman church in europe, filling the gaps left by Rome
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@lstench #CommonSense is an alternate voice, he's neither Rep or Dem, praise when it's deserved, criticise when it's deserved etc
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@lstench he will open your mind to questions and ideas you'd never have thought of before, that's for sure, on both his podcasts
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@lstench remember the time periods were VERY brutal, with beheadings being a pretty universal punishment #differenttimes
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@thistleweb sound too good to be true
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@lstench honestly, he's a breath of fresh air, he was a reporter in LA during the riots after the #RodneyKing beating; you'll be hooked
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@laurelrusswurm with 1 maybe my daughter no failed 2 test they are trying to determine her type before they give her the official label
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@thistleweb I love history, one of my fav subjects to study and teach
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@thistleweb so what is he a life loving libertarian like me @laurelrusswurm did you catch that?
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@lstench Okay; though you meant "could become" as opposed to "fine tuning the categorization" ... that's hard.
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@lstench lol... you're gonna be a hedonist next.
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@laurelrusswurm yep, esp. with all the allergy problems. Did you ever get tested for the yeast?
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@thistleweb for some reason I thought he was the comedian with the potty mouth
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@lstench lol, that's his namesake; the late #GeorgeCarlin, he's hilarious but I get why you wouldn't like him
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@lstench no... allergy test was bizarre; they said I was allergic to nothing; the last time I was allergic to everything (23 out of 25)
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@laurelrusswurm perhaps you are allergic to the test ;)
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@lstench Told me tests were standard. Also I was a difficult patient he couldn't wait to get rid of; not sure if that's a factor in result
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@laurelrusswurm many doctors seek confirmation of their hypotheses. bad science.
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@Inscius perhaps, my thought I quit smoking betw tests... Had reaction to nicotine patch, so maybe i was in perpetual reaction while smoking
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@inscius don't worry, I have a healthy distrust of MDs
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@lstench don't they all have potty mouth? (and just think... you might have been the mother of a famous comedian! ;)
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@laurelrusswurm i dont know anything about that, but sounds possible :)
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@laurelrusswurm "healthy distrust" that is quite scientific approach :)
laurelrusswurm likes this. -
@thistleweb That is who I thought it you meant so I was skeptical. I have bookedmarked this guys site.
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@laurelrusswurm huh? How is that possible? Usually a time frame of two yrs is needed before a retake. But if you have been avoiding those
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@laurelrusswurm things they might not show up.
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@laurelrusswurm Didn't you get a copy of the results. This is the area I tolerate no bull. Having kids with severe issues make me vigilant
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@laurelrusswurm Oh my! Well I like Billy Cosby..
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@laurelrusswurm hee-hee nope I am a libertarian for life.
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@lstench I am disappointed ;( do you think I'd recommend you something like George Carlin, knowing what you're about?
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@thistleweb No! that is why I keep discussing him with you I figured I was the one out of the loop not you. The name just made bells ring
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@laurelrusswurm oops never thought a group like this could exist http://ur1.ca/9y8be
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@lstench why was that?
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@lstench Feel free to tell me MYOB, but the pull to libertarianism would not seem to rest easily alongside the pull to the RCC. Tension?
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@vanden reffering to the Cath. Church? Not a true Cath. no but most catholics are liberal. Me as an Orthodox most of us would have a problem
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@vanden excepting gay marriage.
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@tekk For some reason I always assumed atheist were cold hearted people which meant they had to be pro-choice
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@lstench Apologies; I thought I recalled you saying you were RC. Diff domains, but absolute monarchy seems unlibertarian somehow :-)
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@lstench Whyever would you assume that?
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@vanden http://ur1.ca/9y8dr. I am Coptic Orthodox..
Brian van den Broek likes this. -
@vanden because anyone who didn't believe in God could have no morals, nor be kind or loving, giving etc..
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@lstench Thanks. Non RC Christian libertarianism makes better sense to me, though I from what little I know, the Coptic denomination not >
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@lstench nope, when it boils down to it atheists just believe in one less god than you do :) (well, 3 if orthodox goes …
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@lstench > the most obvious pairing. (To my shame, despite my year in Egypt, I know little of the Coptic faith.)
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@vanden my Hubs is RC and I therefore some time at the CC too. When there is no Orthodox Church locally I attend the CC.
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@lstench The if no God then no morals seems to me an ancient philosophical mistake. Do you know of the Euthyphro question? It is named >
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@lstench > for Plato's dialogue Euthyphro. If you like, I can (tomorrow) search up an accessible presentation. (Short dialogue yet heavy.)
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@tekk http://ur1.ca/9y8ei that's me.
Brian van den Broek likes this. -
@vanden time to brush up http://ur1.ca/9y8et
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@vanden Would like that. As long as you aren't trying to convert me!! LOL just jk ;D
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@tekk I am finding them and agnostics to be okay people who just have differing views. I am growing aren't I? Realized I wasn't being very
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@tekk Christian towards most non-Christians.
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@lstench Assuming that you used to think that all agnostics or atheists were bad people, then yes, you're definitely gr…
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@tekk yes I am proud of myself. I was raised to only be around like minded people.
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@lstench I'm glad you escaped that, no way we could be having this conversation otherwise :)
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@tekk Truly but it's not easy to break away from the pack, they are vicious dogs if they feel they are being betrayed.
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@lstench Sounds right christian of them when you put it that way.
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@lstench people are all multi-layered. The only humans who are not, I think, are sociopaths.
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@lstench kids a different story :) Up here you don't get actual paperwork without a fight. Only recently got MD...not tempting fate just yet
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@lstench Original test maybe a decade ago; new alergist says no allergies and can't do anything except standardized tests
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@lstench Me too.
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@laurelrusswurm wow I thought you had "free" heath care? We actually have great insurance def. not free though
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@johnnynull hmm I stopped reading @thistleweb right :) Plan on listening to the history today.
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@johnnynull I am finding out that a lot I believed to be true isn't.
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@johnnynull found the red scare episode fascinating too, lots of info around US / communism that I never knew before
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@thistleweb I recommend Dan Carlin. HardcoreHistory went a bit long with the Roman stuff, liked Thor's Angels. Always listen to CommonSense.
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@mjjzf yeah Death Throes pt 6 was a whopper at 5hrs, Thors Angels was good too, even for a non-religious type, given it's mostly religion
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@mjjzf I love how he always tries to draw you into the heads of those living through it, to try to imagine it from their viewpoint
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@mjjzf Another vote. Can't wait for the school day to be over so I can give a listen.
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@lstench we did have great free universal health care and then the lobbyists came. (our system was huge threat to US Insurance Industry) ...
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@laurelrusswurm huh? Why do all these countries cater to the US?
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@laurelrusswurm I personally am not a fan of Universal health care. Does your cover everything? All prescriptions to dental and specialist?
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@laurelrusswurm What do you mean cash starve it?
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@lstench deprive it of as much money as possible so it cant function
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@lstench common tactic of politicians fighting, is "ok, you can do this thing I don't like, but you gotta find the money" which kills it
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@lstench Brown would just thwart any Blair policies he didn't agree with when chancellor, as he had the purse strings to pay for them or not
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@thistleweb they can do that with health car? How is that possible? Then what is the benefit of universal care?
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@lstench it's a way of saying in public that they back something, while in reality making sure it's going nowhere, dishonest & normal
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@lstench cf Grover Norquist's claim that he wanted to reduce govt to a size that he could take it into a bathtub and drown it.
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@lstench they can & do that with anything, politicians are all about feathering their own already wealthy nests, not making positive change
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@lstench healthcare is a wealthy industry, with powerful for-profit lobbying
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@lstench politicians want to "appear" to be siding with the public by backing universal care, yet in practice, side with the -for-profit
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@lstench they know regular folks dont pay attention to detail, so their selling out won't really affect them where it counts, the ballot box
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@lstench if it's cash starved, it can't deliver, has to cut back, which the public then react against saying it's not fit for purpose
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@lstench with the public demanding better health care, they say "well, universal stuff can't deliver that quality, but for-profit can"
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@lstench Two reasons, carrot and stick, I think (a) lobbyists dangle irresistable temptations and (b) US has both economic and weapon power
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@lstench our universal health care is incomplete, and varies from province to province.
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@lstench In Ontario I've heard it described as everything "everything below the neck" no dental, vision, psychology or prescriptions
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@thistleweb so basically they plan on eliminating it?
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@thistleweb Hmm one area where I am very aware of here in the US.
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@thistleweb But aren't the people getting sub-par care then?
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@lstench in practical terms yes, but doing it so the voters don't see their hands on the knife standing over the body
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@thistleweb The people except this? Why? Your health is very important.
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@lstench eye tests (annual for children, bi-annual adults) psychiatry, some emergency dental and vision (accident etc) is covered via ER
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@laurelrusswurm Oh so what does the "universal" stand for.
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@thistleweb LOL well I don't have broadcast tv. But can't the same be said for CNN.
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@lstench Perfect universal health care would cover all. Currently Canadian moms can get proper pre-natal care whether rich, poor or insured
Charles Roth likes this. -
@thistleweb okay just checking. We want to fairly accuse don't we?
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@lstench I've heard dental is covered in the Netherlands, but you must go for a check-up every 6 months. If you don't, then you have to pay.
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@lstench both parties represent the rich & manipulate the poor, including the mouthpieces for both, always pushing hot buttons to distract
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@lstench our gov't has a great deal of discretion in allocating tax funds. Taxes collected federally, divided and dispensed to provinces
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@lstench Provinces are responsible to providing health care, but federal gov't decides how much money it will dispense. Economies are made
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@lstench universal coverage means all citizens are covered. You stumble into a hospital you are treated.
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@laurelrusswurm so what happens once the limit is reached no more health care for that quarter?
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@lstench In cash starved system hospitals lack funds to hire enough doctors, nurses etc. so wait times lengthen, changes made to coverge
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@laurelrusswurm so illegals are out of luck? So un-US like. LOL
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@lstench One thing they did was to cap how much doctors can make. After they bill all the hours, they can bill no more.
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@laurelrusswurm So it is another big lie, there is no true universal health care in Canada it's all conditional.
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@laurelrusswurm Why are the doctors penalized?
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@lstench doctors near border work in US; committed doctors in underserviced isolated communities often work for free. #whyMDsleave !Canada
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@lstench Everyone is treated; no one is turned away from hospital, but they will chase you for money if you aren't covered
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@laurelrusswurm A true blessin g drs who do this.
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@lstench provinces have different requirements; moving to different province and had a year wait; here used to be 3 month residency
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@laurelrusswurm I will stick with private insurance. Seems like a case of you get what you pay for.
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@lstench There are far better versions in Europe, but that is because they have government commitment.
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@lstench It allows gov't to cap how much it spends on health care- we've a chronic MD shortage and tons of foreign born MDs driving cabs
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@lstench Why I am angry about our system is that it used to be great. We still have awesome health care practioners/system, just not enough
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@lstench And what happens to people who can't afford to pay for private insurance?
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@laurelrusswurm Here the government gives them "free" health care as long as they can prove their need.
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@lstench as someone on Medicaid/Medicare I can tell you that's not true. Limited care/ ltd # of people allowed on program.
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@lstench it is no longer needs based, rather rationed.
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@encycl healthcare is *not* a commodity... capitalism doesn't work #brokenrecord
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@lstench Yes, I've heard senior citizens must sell their homes to pay for health care. Here, *everything* is covered for people on welfare
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@lstench What happens when, as so many are now (thanks to policies made by unaccountable gov'ts and bankers) when so many are underemployed?
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@r7 It works spectacularly well, but the goals and means are widely misunderstood. (Yes, I know you know this.)
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@lstench the thing you need to remember about insurance is that it is a sucker's game; the house (not the insured) always wins.
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@vanden ;-) i never got to look at the other end
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@lstench I grew up in a strong Mennonite population; for them, insurance is a no-no because it's "gambling with God" so they don't
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@laurelrusswurm IMO they're right, it is gambling, pure and simple. Worse the dealer can often change the rules during the game.
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@laurelrusswurm I have never heard of that. Ever.
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@laurelrusswurm Then the gov. is forced to carry them and they do, but like your universal care the don't always get the best drs or care
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@laurelrusswurm Not denying that but they do provide a good service (most of the time) .
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@encycl Really I knew lmtd care but lmtd number? Do you know why?
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@lstench because whether poor people suffer and die is largely irrelevant to the larger project of protecting profit
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@lstench When you buy insurance, you are gambling you will get more than you pay for while seller bet will make more money than have to pay
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@encycl I want to know more. I have lots of experience with State insurance but I am assuming you me county insurance.
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@lstench and what @kevingranade said ... http://status.linuxwrangling.com/notice/232831
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@laurelrusswurm I agree, I however need insurance copays for just caleb Meds run us a little over 3thou@every few months
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@laurelrusswurm I am thankful that insurance pays the other 90 per. I do think the pharmaceutical industry need revamping.
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@laurelrusswurm we must have crossposted, I do agree.
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@lstench I'm speaking of state Medicaid. WA & many others face devastating budgets. solution has been to cut services & create waiting lists
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@lstench the service you get is less than what the funds they take in *could* pay for; there is profit, and it is not insubstantial
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@lstench I'm fortunate after 3 years and a hearing before an admin law judge I am now on SocSec/Medicare but it's grim …
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@r7 here's an example: http://ur1.ca/9yd45
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@encycl Oh I know nothing of that only dealt with the state spec division for Chronically ill children and they were sweet. Our insur. payed
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@encycl 70% They paid 20% We payed 10% . 1/2 yr hospital stay not cheap.
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@laurelrusswurm @lstench It's been quite a ride going from the best private insurance, to losing everything, to medicai…
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@encycl I am so sorry. I know back home our local churches helped people and ran clinics to help those who needed med care
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@encycl If that happened to us we would be devastated with the med need in our house and now diabetes too...
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@lstench years ago Donohue covered US health insurance... familiies that cost too much were routinely dropped from Private insurance ...
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@laurelrusswurm @encycl Do the Rich not have the option of private insurance like in Denmark?
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@lstench I had to go without meds & treatment for many months, but I have survived thanks to doctors, lawyer, & friends. I worry about other
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@lstench ... and one small company lost its insurer for all employees because one guy's kid's health insurance cost too much
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@r7 That hurts me, I always want to trust and believe our country and companies have our best interest at heart.
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@laurelrusswurm Thankfully I haven't had that problem, didn't they put laws in place to stop that from happening.
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@lstench pop quiz: the last year the USA was not at war? or had a non-christian president? your country & companies care not of the poor
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@r7 The only time a company is interested in people's best interest is if it increases corporate bottom line. corporations = sociopaths
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@r7 Huh we have a non-Christian President now.
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@lstench Originally federal regulations have prohibited for profit except where there is no coverage.
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@lstench not according to him
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@lstench the reason our system worked so well (and is still limping along better than most places in the world) is because single payer
Jason F. McBrayer likes this. -
@encycl I just dont understand how they can refuse someone medication they need. If that happened to my son he could die. Then what?
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I watched that & commented on my stream. I couldn't find this post when I clicked back to comment :-)
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@r7 Yeah http://ur1.ca/9ydjv
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@lstench I don't know... that was over 20 years ago. Perhaps Phil Donohue's attention helped raise public awareness.
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@laurelrusswurm single payer
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@r7 The US always stick it's nose in everyone’s business even I know that.
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@lstench I lack current figures but back then USA paid more per head to *only* fully cover destitute than Canada paid to cover all.
Jason F. McBrayer likes this. -
@lstench as i understand it, faith is between a person and god[s] not a matter of public opinion
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r7
r7
, Charles Roth
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@lstench Same way corporations have decided that safety fixes to, say, automobiles, would cost more than resultant wrongful death lawsuits
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@lstench That around half the electorate thinks he's a "secret muslim" doesn't make it true. Racism surely a large driver of that BS.
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@lstench Alternatively, I am sure there are Evangelical communities where more than 50% would deny you're a Christian as not born again. So?
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@vanden Not caring about that. My point is he is one of the few who thinks he is a Christian the rest of us aren't under that illusion
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@vanden Well we all know they aren't part of the church and teach heresies!
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@lstench From what evidence do you get to say he's not? Does such evidence also allow BushII to count as Christian, conduct notwithstanding?
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@lstench why is he less a christian than another warmonger president you've had? [ie all of 'em]
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@vanden But they don't deny we are christian http://is.gd/AYtoTi
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@lstench To borrow from Oscar Wilde, 'heresy' is not one of my words. I certainly know no such thing.
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@vanden His beliefs pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro everything really except Jesus. Not normative Christian thought.
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Some don't and some do. Either way, you'd rightly reject the let's poll to see if @lstench is really a christian approach, wouldn't you?
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@vanden A protestian response
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@lstench So the Anglican and United churches of Canada (perform gay marriages) aren't Christian? You've a sweeping normative theology then.
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@r7 He never was Christian, he never has held Christian beliefs.
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@vanden I know little of the Anglican Church. The Episcopal Church here in the US is not Christian I am not attacking the members as a whole
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@vanden just going by what their leadership puts out there.
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@lstench with respect (truly), it may well be. But it actually is a response and in that it differs from your ad hominem.
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@vanden Nope I wouldn't reject it. I believe people should be free to have their own beliefs even if I don't agree. My point is Obama comes
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@lstench I cannot but conclude you are using 'Christian' in a narrow way which excludes many self-identifying (and widely accepted) as such.
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@vanden Across as not Christian. I can not judge his heart only his words and actions, I tell no lies on him I just observe.
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@lstench So, if I could find a large group where 55% said you weren't christian, you would accept that you are not? Surely not.
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@vanden I don't deny that I never said I was free from stereotyping only that I am becoming more open-minded.
laurelrusswurm likes this. -
@lstench But what do I know. I am, as my italian wife keeps telling me, a "protestant athiest" :-) Later; work to be done.
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@vanden I would except that they "believe" that. I would know they were wrong!! LOL!! I do get your point I have encountered
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@vanden much nastiness from Protestants.
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@vanden Is that possible?
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@lstench Not really. Her point is that, my longheld atheism notwithstanding, she can see that I am the product of a protestant culture.
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@lstench Full & sincere props for that & for being as honest about your views as you are in a forum where they are not dominant.
Charles Roth likes this. -
@vanden I generally call that situation, "Recovering Protestant", or "Protestant in remission". e.g. I'm a "Recovering Baptist".
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@vanden I do try to be honest, fair maybe not so much!! I am confused I thought this was the fundamental christian forum,.
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@vanden Aha! And what gives you away?
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@lstench that's some heavy sarcasm there, perhaps you should consider limiting your conversations with @thistleweb... ;)
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@kevingranade sarcasm me? I think not!! I demand an apology. :-p Well maybe I should be careful who I hang with.
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@kevingranade I secretly think @thistleweb is okay don't tell him I said so.
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@kevingranade I like term, but I've nothing to recover from; never infected.Wife's point is the religion permeates the culture past belief.
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@vanden I see, yea that does make things different.
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I have an RSS feed list on http://projekter.ufora.dk/podcast/ - consider Stuff You Missed In History Class and To The Best Of Our Knowledge.
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I see you use Turpial, by the way - happy with that? Never noticed it before.
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Yes - he always makes a point of seeing the rationale they have acted on, that is a major point.
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@lstench http://ur1.ca/9yjrq you need to retract your staement
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@vanden amen to that
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Actually I like it wish it did multiple accounts. Been using it off and on for a couple years.
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hmm.. why? Sort of reminds me of the NOI and Islam.
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@lstench wow. i'm back off right now
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@r7 you do know I meant the relationship of Obama to Christianity reminded me of the relationship between NOI to Islam? They say they
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@r7 follow Islam but Islam doesn't want them under their umbrella and tries to distance itself.
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@lstench are you saying you belive Obama is a muslim?
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@thistleweb @lstench If I had to put money on the truth, I'd guess he was atheist but knows he can't go public with it
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@silner most politicians cynically use religious affiliation to fool the faithful that they're one of them, he's no different
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@silner he knows US voters are easily led by the nose to vote on how faithful they think he is, so he plays that card #selfinterest
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@thistleweb i'd like an answer to that too
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@thistleweb nope was tring to compare relationships did you see my other dent explaining. Think hes probably agnostic.
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@lstench what US politician practises "Christian values" in their policies? other than those who wouldn't be out of place in the Taliban?
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@lstench very few of them practice the Christian lifestyle in private - gay bashing turning out to be gay etc
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@thistleweb which goes back to my original point: last non-christian president & last year of peace #warisanonchristianvalue #saystheatheist
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@silner basically.
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@thistleweb Exactly, that is why I am exasperated with our system...
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@thistleweb As with everything I am sure there is an exception.. let you know when I find one.
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@thistleweb I personally think religion should be left out of politics!
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