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Relicensing !VLC to the #LGPL the hard way http://ur1.ca/ax52l
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Bradley M. Kuhn
VLC Media Player
, The GNU General Public License
, The GNU Lesser General Public License
I don't support !VLC's relicense from !GPL to !LGPL & I don't really understand what #Videolan Org believes it'll accomplish: ur1.ca/b985g
Rob Myers and Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA like this. -
Presumably it means they can put VLC into online app-stores?
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nds likes this.
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@webmink,looks like you didn't click through. I discuss that issue directly in my blog post on the subject,linked to from the preceding dent
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@bkuhn if I had to guess, it has something to do with libvlc..
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@bkuhn It will get VLC back on the app store and mean people are free to use it on their - hang on…
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@robmyers, Can you show me which app store permits !LGPL -covered software but *not* !GPL -covered software? I believe that's the empty set.
nds likes this. -
@sazius, as I said in my blog post, this is kind of a "count your blessings" moment: maybe I should just be glad !VLC *didn't* go #Apache.
nds likes this. -
You're right, I didn't notice it in all the tag forest :-) Will take a look.
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OK, looked. You assert but don't explain. Got any (written) materials? I don'f share your opinion right now.
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The whole legal argument seems speculative and I believe most cases are based on conflict avoidance rather than settled law. 1/2
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Using LGPL may reduce the scope to argue copyright is being infringed and thus discourage complaints from app-store-haters... 2/2
Evan Prodromou likes this. -
@webmink also it's a bit unfair to label people who want the users of their software to retain GPL freedoms as merely "app-store-haters"
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If that was the only motivation I would agree. But I believe the motivation to be more visceral.
Mike Linksvayer likes this. -
@webmink Just thinking about sw freedom issues on a platform like iOS is kind of difficult since you can't even run your own binaries there.
Paco Vila likes this. -
Maybe, although many have embarked on an open source future because they first used open source on a closed platform.
Evan Prodromou likes this. -
My doubt is that copyright applies to packaging. The GPL has to apply before it can be infringed.
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BTW, your repeated comment about "doing my research" when I ask you to support your assertions seems odd.
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@webmink That's true,although I'm not sure if that strategy will work in the iOS case. And price is much higher than,say,porting to Windows.
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@webmink A Windows user can exercise their freedom w/ regard to that sw at least. Not on iOS. So people may not see benefit of FLOSS there.
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@webmink,b/c you asked for docs in a medium you found more convenient;I discuss details in panel discussion ref'd via footnote in blog post.
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GPL/LGPL are © licenses. © applies when distribution occurs. App Stores distribute. Distribution terms must be compatible w/ © license. qed
nds likes this. -
I don't have time to do transcription on stuff you don't consider important enough to write up. If it can't be searched it's not a source.
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So a bookstore putting a (copyrighted) book in a paper bag with text on it would be a copyright infringement?
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@webmink that was the reason to relicense vlc
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I work 12 hours most days running a non-profit on a shoestring budget. The recording is there. Why don't you volunteer to transcribe it?
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BTW, #Wikipedia rules disagree with you on what is and is not a valid source. Perhaps you should go there to complain about this too? :)
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The iOS case is just an edge case of a larger principle. Preventing open source being distributed on closed platforms creates a ghetto.
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@webmink,If bag had a shrink-wrap license on it: "By opening this bag,you agree not to redistribute this book" &it was a CC-By-SA book, yes!
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Because I have a life too; you're not the only saint :-)
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Appeal to Wikipedia rules is definitely an act of desperation :-)
Mike Linksvayer likes this. -
@webmink I don't think it's an edge case. Distributing on Windows, Mac OS X or Android doesn't have the same problems.
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But you're who complained I didn't transcribe audio. I *will* read your well-sourced article on how #Apple AppStore terms're LGPL compatible
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@webmink, I know many librarians via #Evergreen. Do I really need to get them here to prove publicly archived audio is a valid source? @dbs?
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I was not claiming that, just asking questions. You're the one claiming certainty & telling me to look in a rambling podcast for proof :-)
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"Source" in this context as in "historical source". The Rosetta Stone is a "source" in that sense too. Still needs a transcription :-)
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I don't think that's right. That would be leveraging the retailer's contractual relationship with the customer, not creating a derived work.
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This isn't 1st time !FaifCast has been accused of not being useful b/c of lack of transcriptions. Still,no one's come forward to fund them.
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"Edge" as in "leading edge". It will increasingly be the norm. If we decide to abdicate responsibility we abandon software freedom there...
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It's a "source" but not a "reference". If you can't search or scan it, you can't refer to it...
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@webmink I don't know what responsibility that is, though? I'd prefer to work to have more open mobile platforms.
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@webmink I don't see FLOSS having any advantage on iOS that would attract users.Having more & better sw on Android may attract users though.
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@webmink, you're conflating permission to create derivatives w/ permission to distribute. they're distinct, in USA © & likely elsewhere too.
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@webmink,you're just being unreasonable about this,IMO. I'm not going to respond further on this subthread; it's not worth my time nor yours
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Reference a podcast? Sure: http://ur1.ca/b9fru (for bonus points, include time offsets for money quotes)
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Evan Prodromou likes this.
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That's precious, Bradley.
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Surely the error in your opinion concerning app stores is that you do precisely that?
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@diablomarcus, I don't think @webmink & I would make a good married couple...except maybe in the James Carville & Mary Matalin sense. :)
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That's a near certain way to ensure no-one will check your "sources".
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@bkuhn Most podcasts I listen to don't even have time markers, nevermind transcriptions. In fact, this is the first tim…
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@webmink, Apple's issues come down to additional restrictions clauses in GPL & LGPL. Google, BTW, requires permissive license to them.
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But since Apple are not creating a derived copyrighted work (just engaging in distribution), why do those copyright license clauses apply?
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That was my understanding, yes. Any idea who advised them?
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That would be interesting to try. I have a hunch we'll do something like it at FOSDEM :-)
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@webmink you are probably correct; I continue to believe entire discussion around this issue has been characterized by tremendous confusion
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FOSDEM discussion? Last year I think it just assumed there was an issue rather than explored the mechanics.
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@bkuhn have you thought about applicability of #SystemLibraryException in #iOS context?
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Also, you'll notice that VLC is basically not used in embedded. My guess is that they want to have a presence there.
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That said, I guess they'll have a hard time competing with GStreamer as it's quite technologically ahead of them by them (and it's the std).
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That Rorschach effect is important though. If people believe there is no issue, they won't file complaints...
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@oliviercrete, hrm, the GStreamer argument is probably correct, but I think embedded world can live with !GPL (BusyBox, Linux, etc).
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@fontana, yes, I have.
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@bkuhn perhaps widespread violation in those spaces is a hint that they can't
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@webmink dunno
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♻ @bkuhn: I don't support VLC's relicense from GPL to LGPL [...]: http://ur1.ca/b985g
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@webmink err... could it be because the conditions are for distribution of the work and derived works thereof?
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@bkuhn Excep that in embedded you use the multimedia stuff as a library, unlike Linux or Busybox...
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Sadly it's not clear which of my many comments on this thread you're responding to here. But I believe this issue is far from obvious.
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But in embedded you also ship-with as an aggregate work so the "library" language is less obviously helpful.
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@webmink what makes it non-obvious? is it not distribution, under further restrictions, of code whose license does not permit them?
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I spent a lot of effort crafting 140-character answers to similar questions last night. Which of them were you responding to?
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@webmink http://ur1.ca/bal0b are you not aware of http://ur1.ca/57f4w that can restore proper threading in convos?
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That is a matter between the app creator & the copyright holder.
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Thanks for the pointer. I'll assume the confrontational phrasing is a matter of non-native usage.
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@webmink no idea about this confrontational phrasing you mention, so the assumption may very well be correct. sorry
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@webmink why stop there? the copyleft license is granted and applicable to every downstream distributor, user and contributor
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Maybe it's simply same reason as GStreamer? LGPL allows proprietary plugins in same process space, while GPL does not.
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