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Free as in Freedom
Google
, Copyleft
, Oracle
, The GNU General Public License
, Free as in Freedom
, Bradley M. Kuhn
, karen sandler
!FaiFCast 0x35: @bkuhn & @kaz discuss the !Oracle vs. !Google #copyright decision & how it doesn't impact !GPL nor !copyleft. ur1.ca/bulrg
- Gustavo Vega likes this.
- Gustavo Vega repeated this.
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@methoddan does another great !FaiFCast editing job & #OSUOSL does a great job with the bandwidth. Please Donate to them! osuosl.org/donate
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I'm glad you explicitly say in the title it doesn't rather than "DOES the oracle v google decision impact GPL/copyleft? News at 11!"
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I don't think I caught even one use of "folks" on this #FaiF episode. Thank you for listening to your listener community! !notatroll
Evan Prodromou likes this. -
@faif Loved this new episode~! Always happy to have something to listen to while walking~
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I finally wrote my "nothing to see here; move along" blog post about the !Oracle v. !Google #copyright decision. http://ur1.ca/by0m7
Hilton Garcia Fernandes likes this. -
@fontana, your ego is getting the better of you. I don't think of you ever time I use the word folks, which I've used since the early 1990s.
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@bkuhn "always have been" is a slight exaggeration.
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@bkuhn I think there's been a long history in computing around the copyrightability of languages and APIs. Not prima facie ridiculous.
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@evan examples? The closest example I can think of is the FAT name-mangling scheme, and that's a patent, not a ©.
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Saying that API copyrights are ridiculous because, hey, #Wine implements a non-standard API, is very weak proof.
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Many of the "copycat" APIs that we are used to, like POSIX, are actually made available under some standards regime.
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#StatusNet implement a work-alike API created for Twitter; this has always been something that concerns me.
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Lotus vs. Borland. http://identi.ca/url/74505828.
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Ashton-Tate vs. Fox Software. http://identi.ca/url/74505847
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@evan 1. It regards menu layout, which is API-like at best (though similar legal theories apply) 2. It was held un-©-able.
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To a very large extent, the success of Free and Open Source software has depended on our ability to make work-alike software.
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@evan The summary sounds like they copied the entire UI instead of just the portions necessary for programmatic access.
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@evan Doesn't this argument amount to "some people argue for it" similar to flat-earth "theories"?
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@x1101 IMO "X is derivative, not innovative" is a myth, all innovation is incremental.
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@x1101 I think that's important. I think it'd be dishonest to say that work-alike clones haven't been important for FLOSS.
Christopher Allan Webber likes this. -
@kevingranade I don't think this line of reasoning is as far outside the mainstream as flat-earth theories are.
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The macro language was a key part of the case.
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...and the fact that we've had 2 very court cases about the subject in the last few years suggests it's non-obvious.
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@evan It's not AS absurd, but it's still absurd. The argument is fallacious.
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@evan To the extent that the cases are similar, it was rejected, I don't see how that supports the argument being credible.
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You're wrong. Copyright on APIs, file formats, network protocols, and programming languages have been a real issue for a while.
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@evan that doesn't follow, to avoid outright dismissal, a case only needs some valid issues, not necessaraly the one we're discussing.
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@bkuhn, when speaking of Free Software re-implementations, I think you are mistaken in equating "not copyrightable" with non-infringing.
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@bkuhn The Twitter and StatusNet APIs are diverging a wee bit. See Debian bug 693147 that I filed as a blocker as ttytter has to have
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@bkuhn things rebuilt to handle Twitter 1.1 compared to the StatusNet API's shift to AtomPub...
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@bkuhn, APIs could inhere copyright protection and non-infringing uses be allowed owing to scenes a faire, estoppel, and copyright misuse.
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Twitter folks have said something along that line, see http://identi.ca/url/74522447
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@evan Well, it is diverging now I guess. Is there a StatusNet equivalent to Cards or are the two APIs becoming different?
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@fontana rule 1 of fixing the PHP problem: don't talk about PHP
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@saul,I'm still confused,since the whole point was the Court held that APIs in themselves aren't ©'able, only the implementations are ©'able
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@bkuhn, the court (J. Wm Alsup) did not rule that APIs are not copyrightable. I will send an email elaborating my position.
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