Christopher Allan Webber

"On being web-friendly and why info must die" thread

Christopher Allan Webber at

So, ESR started a thread titled On being web-friendly and why info must die

I think the major reason this has not happened is because the Emacs development culture is still largely stuck in a pre-Web mindset. There are a number of historically contingent reasons for this, but enumerating them is not really important. What matters is recognizing that this is a problem and fixing it.

I agree with this, and I have expressed similar concerns. I also actually really like reading TeXInfo (but not writing it) in emacs, but I know that's a "living in the past, dude" kind of thing. I'm not sure TeXInfo should be mandatory for new GNU projects.

That said, here's where I'm a bit surprised:

I have discussed this with RMS and, pending my ability to actually write proper translation tools, we have agreed on asciidoc as a new master format. This is what should replace Texinfo and the gallimaufry of ad-hoc text files like /etc/CONTRIBUTE and the admin/notes stuff.

Huh, why not spend energy on improving TeXInfo's HTML output? Maybe not make TeXInfo mandatory for new GNU projects, but wouldn't that be a faster way to get things done?

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I have never seriously used Texinfo so I am just being theoretically here: What I like about Texinfo, when compared to other light-weight markup languages such as asciidoc, is that Texinfo has a DTD for its XML representation: http://www.gnu.org/software/texinfo/dtd/ . Hence one can easily check whether a Texinfo file is structurally valid. The DTD also helps when one is building conversion tools to other markup languages such as HTML and DocBook. The DTD helps me see if I have covered all the corner cases in the source language (Texinfo) when mapping to the target languages (HTML and DocBook).

Tyng-Ruey Chuang at 2014-12-06T17:57:24Z

I don't get this part, which seems to be the main crux.

"The EmacsWiki is a valiant stab at fixing part of the problem, but its utility is severely damaged by the fact that it can't readily link inwards to the stuff carried in the distribution."

Ok, then put an html rendering of the TexInfo manual in an official spot. Oh, wait!

https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/index.html

And for the other files in the distro, there should be a source code browser online, with reasonably human-understandable URLS. Hang on!

http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/

Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) at 2014-12-07T21:11:15Z

You know what would be even cooler? Make cgit understand .texi and then you can get it all in one place.

Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) at 2014-12-07T21:13:06Z

X11R5 likes this.

But maybe .texi is a bit too obscure, and nobody will bother to update the documentation if they have to learn an obscure language. Then don't use another obscure language! The kids don't write asciidoc, nobody has heard about asciidoc. Use Markdown.

Asciidoc maps to DocBook? Who cares? Only people who write customer documentation for Motorola and Ericsson have ever heard about DocBook. Nobody under 30 knows what SGML is.

Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) at 2014-12-07T21:16:17Z