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Federated systems are still centralized at end points, who here are using identi.ca, quitter.se, microca.st or gmail, yahoo, apple's or likewise. My point is people put trust in major players that trust is justified. In the end major players have most of the userbase. Federation is still in infancy.

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@testbeta@identi.ca As much as possible I do run my own servers (SMTP,IMAP,XMPP,murmur,davical,etc) I also use Bit message for what it is worth. None of my life is on the 'Major players' servers (with the exception of Identi.ca and freenode). Once I get off my butt and get a 'let's encrypt' cert. I'll probably look at running my own pump. Having a freemor@freemor.call webfinger is an appealing thought.

I could not do this in the world imagined by Moxie and the 'major players'. I grew up on the federated Internet (irc,uucp,nntp,smtp,xmpp,etc) and have watched with dismay as things like hotmail/gmail and other centralized things have messed it all up. I'm not saying federation is perfect but it is much more robust then centralized services (to things like government linking etc). A short while ago (before all this began) I wrote a blog entry talking about the three models central,federated,P2P and pointed out that they all have their strengths and weaknesses. And pointed out that the most important consideration is right tool for the right job.

I would never say all things must be federated... That's just silly. But some things work better federated just as some things work better P2P, and others centralized.

If Moxie believes central is the best tool for what he is making I won't argue.. But to say that federation is bad/useless/dead/unworkable is just plain incorrect. It may not fit for what he wants, fine. But don't blame the drill because it makes a poor hammer. Just use the right tool for the job and move on.

Freemor at 2016-05-24T21:19:03Z

testbeta, Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) likes this.

@testbeta@identi.ca as to the trust point question. A federated service let's me change whom I trust very easily without loosing contact with people. Or even let's my friends and I take our chips and cheesies, set up our own servers that only talk to our own servers and go play in the corner by ourselves.

Neither of these things can be done in a centralized service. You have to trust the silo

Freemor at 2016-05-24T21:30:38Z

Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) likes this.

Yes that's true because you can run your servers. You know what you are doing. People who aren't well versed with server administration or even computers rely on such trust which has its origin in fear and reliability. Like there is chance zoho might go away but not gmail. That sort of trust.

testbeta at 2016-05-25T08:06:15Z

Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) likes this.

It all comes down to usable, accessible freedom.


I heard another term this week that I associated with userops, but it was more immediately understandable for people not in the loop, and it was less technically and more freedom-focused. Something like usable freedom, but with even more pathos.

Claes Wallin (韋嘉誠) at 2016-06-01T15:38:43Z