Debian will not make the experience worse for those users, to no real
benefit to other users, because we have a Social Contract that ensures
that we will not get in the way of people that want to use our software
for things that we almost certainly disagree with.
Apparently some people think it's important to make Debian a tiresome
experience for those that were foolish enough to no know the exact
chipset that was going to be in whatever hardware they bought, and thus
found that it (currently) needs its proprietary firmware uploaded.
Mostly old stuff that has been said multiple times, but I fully agree with that email on why having non-free distinct from main, but available is actually better for freedom than not having it.
I would s/hardware they bought/hardware they bought, or received as a gift\/charity/, because knowing the exact chipset of e.g. a wifi-card and refusing donated hardware because of it can be even more problematic.
At Debconf15 there were talks to split non-free in a way that enabling it to get firmware for your wifi card wouldn't make you accidentally install other non-free software that is not strictly required, and it was generally accepted as a good idea. I don't know the current status, some details still required working out.
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>> Kete Foy:
>> Elena ``of Valhalla'':
“People who get their computers on the used market”
That's exactly where I got my Libreboot computer. If someone feels like they need to make a compromise, it's like, do they really need that Microsoft/Cisco job?”
Actually, that's also the way I'm going to do it (I've received my SOIC clip in the post yesterday), but that's an option that requires quite some computer expertise and comes with a nonzero risk of bricking the computer, so it's not really an option for most users.
And I'm still going to use a regular SSD, with its very not trustable firmware, because I need more storage than an SD card allows (and btw, SDs do have a controller running some firmware, altought I'm not sure it's powerful enough to do harm as the ones on disks are).
It's an improvement, and hopefully with time it will be available to more people, just like a mostly free OS right now is available to way more people than it was 10 years ago.
>> Kete Foy:
“Hey, I'm sorry, I thought I was responding to someone else's words, and then, I didn't know how to go back and tone it down.
Apologies accepted, and yes, it's easy to do tone mistakes on a text-only medium (and I'm often guilty of that too).
>> Elena ``of Valhalla'':
“ that's an option that requires quite some computer expertise and comes with a nonzero risk of bricking the computer”
Users can even get them with Libreboot preinstalled.
>> Kete Foy:
“Users can even get them with Libreboot preinstalled.””
Yes, but last time I checked they were sold for more than 500 eur, which brings them out of the budget of lots of people (at least where I live).
I know that there are starting to be "install fests" where people can help you with the flashing: the closest one to where I live is a 3+ hour drive into Switzerland (not something you'd do when on a budget), but I hope that our LUG will be able to do it, as soon as we've gained enough confidence by breaking our own computers.
As I said, we are in a bad situation, but it's better than it used to be and we're trying to slowly improve it.