Too Big to Fail code hosting is a lie
Free software or proprietary on the backend, between Google Code and Gitorious both shutting down, your code hosting monolith is not Too Big To Fail (even if run by a mega-corporation like Google!).Show all 16 replies
Problem is, not everyone can host everything on their own server. I looked at Gogs, and the resources it need (if you need to use any team functionality) require a middle to high end VPS.
So, if you need to run 2-3 self-hosted services (Let's say, your own Gogs, MediaGoblin, Pump/Diaspora) it becomes very expensive to maintain. Though, I do agree with the points mentioned, but sometimes it's better (easier, cheaper, more reliabled) to go for a paid service then self-host.
Christopher Allan Webber likes this.
Federation doesn't mean every single person has to run their own instance of every single federated app, you and some friends can run one or you can use public services. If it's not federated there can only be huge monoliths if things remain practical.Admittely, it is failing in a way that gives plenty of time to migrate elsewhere, which smaller players could not be able to do.
On the other hand, self hosting is just better, and self, federated, hosting is even better.
(btw, the people at friendica are also looking into it:https://kirgroup.com/projects/fabrixxm/friendica-projects )
Um, Davdroid, if you go to Gitorious.org the big banner tells everyone to go to GitLab, so yeah, people know. And it's a good option, better than GitHub arguably for those who care about freedom. If GitHub goes in some direction you don't like, you can't fork it, it's non-free.
Community run code hosting
So as most of you know gitorious is being acquired by a GitLab and therefore will be shut down. The idea was brought up of possibly having a community run code hosting with issue tracker that will pool money, resources, time and experties to run and maintain a code hosting solution.
Maybe we could get a Mailing list and/or an IRC channel where we can figure out this and get a start. Anyone would be interested in using this and helping in some way or another we can discuss it on this thread until we decide where else to go.
The questions we really need to figure out are:
- Is there enough interest to make this worth while?
- What software should we use?
- Where should we continue to disucss this (I think I'd prefer a Mailing list for this)?
I would obviously want to use this for my own personal projects and possibly Inboxen (would have to speak to moggers first). GNU Mediagoblin would obviously want to use it too.Show all 23 replies
Gitlab uses Github to host their code now whilst that's "dumb" I wouldn't say it's a deal breaker per se however, there is an issue suggesting they use Gitlab to host their code, it says:
"The primary goal is private hosting service. So it's not the best choice for an open source project."
Might want to take that into consideration also when weighing up the options, if they don't intend it to be publically accessable and for Free software maybe in the future they'll make decisions which reflect that, or maybe they have already.I'm definitely pushing for org-local hosting via cgit and git-http-backend. I don't have much need for the other pieces... Review for me is best over email, etc. I'm hoping this will cause more distribution.
I very strongly dislike the Gitlab situation. Their copyright assignment does not guarantee that contributed features remain free. To me, that is completely unacceptable.
Outreach Program to Join Conservancy from GNOME; Program Renames to Outreachy
URL of this announcement: https://sfconservancy.org/news/2015/feb/04/outreachy-joins/
Outreach Program to Join Conservancy from GNOME; Program Renames to Outreachy
Software Freedom Conservancy and the GNOME Foundation together announce that the Free and Open Source Software Outreach Program is moving from GNOME to Conservancy. As Karen Sandler, Executive Director of Conservancy and co-organizer of the Outreach Program, announced in her keynote at FOSDEM this weekend, the program will be rebranding as part of the transition under the new name "Outreachy".
Outreachy helps people from groups underrepresented in free and open source software get involved by providing a supportive community for newcomers to contribute to throughout the year, and by offering focused internship opportunities twice a year with many free software organizations. To date, the program has had 214 interns with 35 different free software organizations, including the Linux Kernel, Wikimedia, GNOME, Mozilla, Twisted (a Conservancy member project), and OpenStack. Marina Zhurakhinskaya, Community Engagement Lead at Red Hat and co-organizer of the program said, "It's amazing that the program we started four years ago with eight GNOME interns has grown to enable hundreds of women become established free software contributors across a broad spectrum of projects. I vividly remember the call in which Karen proposed the idea of inviting other organizations to participate, and I'm excited to continue working closely with her in growing the reach of the program."
The GNOME Foundation, previous nonprofit home of the program, remains a core partner of Outreachy, providing infrastructure support. "The GNOME board is unified in its enthusiasm for Outreach to join Conservancy," said Jean-François Fortin Tam, President of the GNOME Foundation. "We're proud to have launched the program and seen it grow beyond our wildest expectations. We look forward to remaining a partner, supporting and participating in the program in its new home as it continues to grow."
Over the next few months, Outreachy will complete its transition to Conservancy, the non-profit home of over 30 free and open source software projects. "Outreachy is a natural fit for Conservancy," said Sandler. "Conservancy is organized to support many free software projects — and to promote software freedom in general. This program has become an essential way for free software projects to improve their communities. I am honored to keep working with Marina, Sarah Sharp and all of the other volunteers who keep Outreachy going."
The next round of Outreachy internships will have an application deadline on March 24, 2015, and internship dates from May 25 to August 25. Coding, design, documentation and other projects will be available. Applicants will be asked to select a project with one of the participating organizations and collaborate with a mentor listed for that project to make a relevant contribution to the project during the application process. Accepted participants will work remotely, while being guided by their mentor, and will receive a $5,500 stipend.
Outreachy is the successor of the Outreach Program for Women (OPW). OPW was inspired by Google Summer of Code and by how few women applied for it. The GNOME Foundation first started OPW with one round in 2006, and then resumed the effort in 2010 with rounds organized twice a year. In the May 2012 round, Software Freedom Conservancy joined OPW with one internship with the Twisted project. In the January 2013 round, many other free and open source organizations joined the program. For the May 2015 round, the program was renamed to Outreachy with the goal of expanding to engage people from various underrepresented groups and is transitioning to Conservancy as its organizational home.
This program is a welcoming link that connects talented and passionate newcomers with people working in free and open source software and guides them through their first contribution. Through Outreachy, participants learn how exciting and valuable work on software freedom can be, while helping us to build a more inclusive community. The organizational partners of the program are the GNOME Foundation, Red Hat and Software Freedom Conservancy.
About the GNOME Foundation
GNOME was started in 1997 by two then-university students, Miguel de Icaza and Federico Mena Quintero. Their aim: to produce a free (as in freedom) desktop environment. Since then, GNOME has grown into a hugely successful enterprise. Used by millions of people around the world, it is one of the most popular environments for GNU/Linux and UNIX-type operating systems. GNOME's software has been utilized in successful, large-scale enterprise and public deployments.
The GNOME community is made up of hundreds of contributors from all over the world, many of whom are volunteers. This community is supported by the GNOME Foundation, an independent non-profit organization that provides financial, organizational and legal assistance. The Foundation is a democratic institution that is directed by its members, who are all active GNOME contributors. GNOME and its Foundation work to promote software freedom through the creation of innovative, accessible, and beautiful user experiences.
About Software Freedom Conservancy
Software Freedom Conservancy is a public charity that promotes, improves, develops and defends Free, Libre and Open Source software projects. Conservancy is home more than thirty software projects — including Git, Inkscape, Samba, Wine, Selenium, the Linux Compliance project, PyPy, and Sugar Labs — each supported by a dedicated community of volunteers, developers and users. Conservancy's projects include some of the most widely used software systems in the world across many application areas, including educational software deployed in schools around the globe, embedded software systems deployed in most consumer electronic devices, distributed version control developer tools, integrated library services systems, and widely used graphics and art programs. A full list of Conservancy's member projects is available. Conservancy provides these projects with the necessary infrastructure and not-for-profit support services to enable each project's communities to focus on what they do best: creating innovative software and advancing computing for the public's benefit.
- I recently got invited to some team's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slack_(software) account, some kind of team messaging proprietary and very recent thing, which nonetheless has tons of customers. Even ignoring freedom, I can't see the value (doesn't even seem to have replies, just a wall of noise), and don't want to invest time in finding value (because freedom). But it is huge. And others like Yammer are huger, $Billions huge IIRC.
Sort of related to a comment made by @cwebber https://identi.ca/cwebber/comment/gqbrBRbvTVK47cuXR6nxMw about how for a time StatusNet was able to pay some people to work full time on the software. IIUC that's because it was making a play for enterprise messaging. IMO that was a very solid bet, and kudos to Evan for making it.
I have to admit, "the federation" meme turns me off, though perhaps that's because I hate memes. Go federation, but I don't give it much chance. If Facebook or Twitter stumbles, some other silo with lots of capital will pick up the slack.
I home that someone else, or Evan again (but he seems to be doing fuzzy.io now) makes another play at creating a huge entity that happens to work on free and federated software. I wonder if enterprise, or at least team, messaging is evergreen for the right play. Could federation, with the right privacy/sharing nudges be one compelling feature for some organizations' messaging needs?Show all 35 replies@bkuhn I suspect you overestimate the centrality of StatusNet (which at the point you must be thinking of, was almost just identi.ca) among FLOSS developers (well, maybe the ones you talk to, but that's a subset) and generally the impact even all FLOSS developers each "standing alone" can make. AFAICT you predict a dark ages and want to hunker down, hopefully encouraging a few more developers to also hunker down, standing alone, and have a fantasy that if that happens, the proprietary world will somehow self-destruct (eg patent war). That's a recipe for permanent dark ages. I also predict some form of dark ages but am uninterested in hunkering down. I think it is at least possible to increase policy and market demand for software freedom, and that's what the main activity of software freedom advocates ought to be. Of course that isn't a developer-centric activity, and I see that is a good thing: away with fetishizing both developer choice and their enabling lawyers!
Christopher Allan Webber likes this.Team messaging solutions are exactly the kind of area where free software and federation should be able to get a foothold.
The most important network is the team and you can simply choose for the team to use the same tool. The federation part then becomes a bonus.
Back in 2008 I was perplexed that Yammer got any attention at all, when there was already StatusNet that could do the same things and more. What did they do right? Massive VC-backed marketing?
These days when everyone is becoming aware of control of data and the potential risks of cloud hosting, why aren't more corporations interested in products you can easily host yourself and even host internally? And why do so many of those that do have that interest go to SharePoint?@clacke well put, exactly half of why I posted above note (other half various hand-wringing I suppose). Yammer probably had more capital and a sales team and enterprisey integrations enabled by that, as I imagine does Slack. But plausible evergreen state of enterprise market a reason this isn't just kvetching.
>> Charles Stanhope:
“The two examples you cite are probably targetted correctly. The 18-25 group probably isn't buying many new cars. I don't know what sort of insurance Salt-N-Pepa is selling, but that also sounds like something old people think about. ;)”
I saw that insurance commercial. It was freaky. I flipped the TV over to C-SPAN in response.
On Free as in Freedom, Episode 0x51, Bradley and Karen play and discuss Pam Chestek's talk entitled Why Licenses Requiring Use of Trademarks are Non-Free that she gave 15:00 European/Central time on Sunday 2 February 2014 at FOSDEM 2014.
Please donate now: We're trying to send Producer Dan to a Free Software conference. We need to raise $2,500 for travel expenses to send Producer Dan to a conference of his choice to record interviews and otherwise participate in the conference. A donate link is on the front page of the show's website.
- You're certainly not alone in thinking along these lines. I have no recollection of feeling that my attempts at lying didn't work, possibly because since early childhood I've been an incurable truth-teller. After getting into the Free Software movement and trying to understand politics, I started feeling that this inability to lie is both a blessing and a handicap. I share your feeling that it puts us at some disadvantage, very much like the unfair battles between good and evil in fiction, to some extent mirrored in ethical or legal restraints on what e.g. cops and judges are allowed to do, vs the “anything goes” that some criminals take. It still feels right, and I hope enough people value the honesty of playing within the boundaries of ethics that what could amount purely to a handicap ends up also being perceived favorably. Besides, it makes the challenge of defeating an opponent that might resort to anything, while we refuse to use certain unethical weapons, a lot more interesting ;-)
Bradley M. Kuhn likes this.
Bluffing in poker is a tactical decision that has nothing to do with honesty. It's like a feint in basketball or soccer. Those aren't dishonest in the least. Yeah, you could have that flush, or you could have gone left, but you didn't.
One thing that I've realized teaching, and it's perhaps relatively evident because I teach JHS and SHS students, is that what someone says may have nothing to do with what's true. That's so obvious to many teachers such as myself and my coworkers that we generally don't even bother making a judgment on whether any given statement is true. The interesting thing is that once you adopt this behavior, even if you learn it teaching children, you tend to apply it to everyone. You could call it cynical, but I don't feel cynical. I'm not bitter about it. I feel like I'm treating people like they're ... people ... who cover up embarrassment and other badness through misleading words, either intentionally or not. Generally speaking I don't mind, as long as the statements in question are of a personal variety. To the extent our leaders are deceptive on group issues, group effectiveness is destroyed.
One interesting thing in the environmental movement is the typical anti-environmentalist argument structure. Suppose we're talking about global warming. OK, these days it's called climate change. Whichever you prefer. Some representative of an oil company will say you're wrong about global warming, and the order in which the argument proceeds is almost always the same!
1. Global warming doesn't exist.
2. [You show evidence.] OK, maybe it does exist, but it's not as bad as you think.
3. [You show evidence.] OK, maybe it is as bad as you think, but we didn't cause it.
4. [You show evidence.] OK, maybe we caused it, but it's necessary.
The cool thing, which can also be irritating as hell, is that this exact same progression happens on dozens or hundreds of issues. And if you're looking for it, you can see which stage you're at. Unfortunately, oil companies are savvy, so they'll intentionally make the arguments convoluted. Over time, with enough tangents, that gives them an opportunity to come back to point 1 again. The bullet is dodged, the argument is reset, and life goes on.
I found this comment very intriguing, and I agree with you about that pattern (your climate change example).
The fundamental problem there is the mistake of answering political arguments with factual arguments. The company answers each time with a political argument, and the presentation of evidence is factual.
As a computer scientist turned politician, I actually only recently realized how very little the facts matter in any policy debate or discussion. How people feel matters much more.
To the extent that I'm really bad at politics is that I can't abide by misleading people on the facts, even for some greater aim, b/c down that path IMO lies what Laura is talking about in other comments in this thread.
This was sort of the point of my original post. You can't play the game of politics correctly unless you have a rather loose relationship with Truth.
Douglas Perkins likes this.
People in power usually think that the best thing that can happen to the communities they govern is that they keep the power.
So they lie to keep the power, "for the good of the community". I think that they even believe that they are doing the right thing all the time :/
I've indeed observed this behavior, both in Free Software politics, and in "regular" politics.
I remember a specific line from the West Wing. Someone asks Toby why he's so focused on winning all the time. His answer: "We can't govern if we don't win."
Governing is an end in itself. Sad.
- If you're wondering when the programmer gravy train ends, it'll probably be around the time we get AI smart enough to write usable software.
Christopher Allan Webber shared this.Show all 12 replies20 years ? no fucking way ... in 20 years, if we are lucky, AI will be smart enough to safely drive a car on public roads. Now, how many people can drive a car and how many people can write usable software ? Main problem for the AI is the creativity involved. And even if in ... let's say ... 50 years AI is good enough to develop some dumbass business software, there will still be more than enough programming and maintainance work on the AIs. I really doubt I'll see that end of the programmer gravy train in my lifetime.We really appreciate how far away from the gravy train you are. You chose a different life years and years ago. For us. Loved the banter on the last FaiF. I was wearing a big warm smile through the whole segment. You guys are both right and we need both perspective.
On Free as in Freedom, Episode 0x50, Karen and Bradley announce Conservancy's DMCA filing and Conservancy and FSF's joint launch of the copyleft.org project, and then discuss Eileen Evans's FOSDEM 2014 talk, entitled Licensing Models and Building an Open Source Community.
- It is only crazy when you and the dog start dancing to the song you're singing.
Dogs are cool people precisely because they enjoy and tolerate us even more than our human relatives do.
Excited about this new collaboration with Conservancy, and many others to come, to promote understanding and advancement of copyleft: http://www.fsf.org/news/software-freedom-conservancy-and-free-software-foundation-announce-copyleft.org
Conservancy Files Petition for DMCA Exemptions for “Smart” TVs
Conservancy asks U.S. Copyright Office to affirmatively permit community-based hacks on television firmwares
Software Freedom Conservancy, with the pro-bono assistance of Tor Ekeland, P.C., filed today a petition for a proposed exception to the anti-circumvention provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (“DMCA”). In its filing, Conservancy asks that the U.S. Copyright Office to legally permit circumvention of encryption for firmwares found on Smart TV products from manufacturers such as Samsung, Sony and LG. Conservancy's full Petition for Proposed Exemption under 17 U.S.C. § 1201 is available in PDF and in ODT format.
By default, the DMCA prohibits users from examining and attempting to decrypt firmwares on these devices when the manufacturer has used Digital Restrictions Management (“DRM”) to prohibit modification and augmentation of the software on the device. Most of these devices include software licensed under GPLv2, such as Linux and BusyBox, but the DMCA often legally stymies users' ability to installed modified versions of the firmware, even when the device manufacturer provides the complete, corresponding source for these components and “scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable” (per requirements in the GPLv2). If granted, Conservancy's requested exemptions would liberate users of BusyBox/Linux-based encrypted firmwares to circumvent the encryption (if they find a technically feasible way of doing so), and such users would need not fear the harsh penalties under DMCA for disseminating information on how to circumvent such DRM.
Commenting on today's filing, Karen Sandler, Conservancy's Executive Director, said: “We work to help create an open environment for users and developers of free and open source software to innovate and make use of the key freedoms that free software licenses give them. Unfortunately the DMCA curtails these freedoms. Our request is that the U.S. Copyright office restore these freedoms to everyone in the U.S.”
Aaron Williamson, Partner at Tor Ekeland, noted the importance of participation in this process by individual citizens, for-profit companies, and non-profits alike: “We're pleased to be working with Conservancy on this petition. The DMCA is a flawed law and the exemption process is imperfect, but an exemption that enables improvements to the free and open source operating systems at the heart of these devices will promote consumer innovation and security. ”
Conservancy hereby releases its Petition under the Creative Commons Public Domain Dedication (CC0 1.0), in hopes that others will file petitions for other, similar consumer electronics products. The deadline for this round of petitions is this Monday, 3 November 2014.
Permalink for this announcement: http://sfconservancy.org/news/2014/oct/31/dmca-petition/
- I'm imagining a cartoon with a roped off line/queue and a big sign saying SSL with subtitle <- this way for theater. I'm struck by Andy Wingo wanting security from security.
Like I said before in a comment on https://identi.ca/joeyh/note/JHzx9gqNT4-lPDu2GIUmrQ it is appalling the browser vendors can't force something better. WTF is their oligopoly for anyway!?
Couldn't be happier about Matthew Garrett joining the FSF board of directors: http://www.fsf.org/news/matthew-garrett-joins-free-software-foundation-board-of-directorsGreat choice. I'll take it as confirmation of some of my post-free-software (why not, post-open-source-software has been exploited, right?) biases: to actually have control over their own computing and the ability to participate in constructing their computing environments, people have to be safe (their computers and themselves). Estimated probability of increasing FSF relevance in coming years increased. Just for good measure: increase increases.